11x14 G2 Kodak AZO on Ebay...

Discussion in 'Ultra Large Format Cameras and Accessories' started by User Removed, Feb 11, 2007.

  1. User Removed

    User Removed Guest

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  2. Alex Hawley

    Alex Hawley Member

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    Ahhh, c'mon Ryan!

    Seriously though, I'll be watching to see how much it goes for. I'm sure it will be out of my range.
     
  3. Bill Mitchell

    Bill Mitchell Member

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    Alex, are you shooting larger than 8x10 now?
     
  4. Scott Peters

    Scott Peters Member

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    Well, at $2 plus per sheet... and I might add, as high as $3 per sheet on the 'open auction' market, we need to find an alternative paper soon....or hope that Lodima comes through soon. This is getting rediculous. Any suggestions out there? I have heard kentona (bromide, or kentona) and JandC Nuance, which is Forte (no longer around?)...are perhaps alternatives...
     
  5. User Removed

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    The few recent boxes of AZO sold for an insane amount. Around 200-300 a box for 8x10 100 sheets. I'm lucky to have enought to finish off printing for this year, but I hope Michael's Lodima paper gets made soon. Once the formula is perfect, I'm sure it will be MONTHS to make, cut, package, ship, and finally start distributing all of it.

    I know it's a long process, but I'm not even starting to hold my breath yet for the paper being available this year. However...we will see.
     
  6. Alex Hawley

    Alex Hawley Member

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    No Bill, 8x10 is still my largest format. One could cut up the 11x14 into an 8x10 and a couple or three 4x5 sheets. I'm just interested in what this goes for. If its like the recent 8x10 sales, its a far better investment to the seller that just about anything.

    I have a very few sheets of Grade 3 Azo left and that's it. After a year of paper chasing and the recent loss of Forte, I've decided to settle in on Kentmere and Ilford and to hell with all the rest. I'm betting they will stay in production for several more years and I know I can make do with them.
     
  7. Scott Peters

    Scott Peters Member

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    Ryan, yup, I ended up paying $2 a sheet for grade 3 as I needed it....but won't do this again....so, I am forced to find a new paper as I agree with your sense of timing on the Lodima....I think it will be awhile. Alex, I'm with you....I'm testing Kentmere papers in Amidol to see how I do....until the new Lodima paper is finalized.......What has been your experience with the Ilford?
     
  8. Alex Hawley

    Alex Hawley Member

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    I'm going back to using MG IV as my standard VC paper. It works just fine with Amidol or any other developer I've ever used. A few years ago, I did a side-by-side comparison of the same negative contact printed on Azo and MG IV, both developed in Smiths Amidol formulations. There was a visual difference between the two prints, but only a very slight one.

    Ilford Warm Tone is a real winner too. Although its current price is high, its still not quite as high as Azo was selling for, and far less than what Azo is currently selling for.
     
  9. Scott Peters

    Scott Peters Member

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    Thanks Alex, I will give it a try as well. Won't be able to take advantage of the VC with my fancy light bulb though...
     
  10. jgjbowen

    jgjbowen Member

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    sold for $786 Wow!

    Does anyone know who Largeformatshopper is?
     
  11. User Removed

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    How sad.

    That money could have been put forth to Michael and Paula to contribute to the Lodima fund. They are still in need of money for the paper and that would have been several boxes of 11x14 the person could have preordered.
     
  12. ulf_forever

    ulf_forever Member

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  13. jgjbowen

    jgjbowen Member

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    I'd be willing to bet that the buyer of this paper probably has an order in with M&P for Lodima. I'm pretty sure all of the other folks paying $2-$3 per 8x10 sheet for Azo also have orders with M&P. The problem is that nobody can say for sure just when Lodima will be available, or if Lodima will ever be available.

    I too, have a rather large order in for the new Lodima, but folks still want to produce images in the here and now, not wait in limbo for something that may never come to fruition. Remember M&P were asking us to pony up at the same time Kodak & Ilford were taking orders for ULF film. Due to this I had to order both less Lodima and less TMY then I would have if they hadn't coincided. Thanks to J&C's moving sale, I now have lots of ULF TMY, but what I am missing is ULF Azo. I plan to at least double my current Lodima order once M&P announce it is ready to be produced. We Azo users should all count our blessings that M&P weren't using Forte to produce Lodima. If that were the case M&P would be back at square one.

    You also have to deal with the issue of single weight paper. If my understanding is correct, M&P have already purchased the single weight paper to coat Lodima on because they weren't sure how long single weight paper would be available. The initial run may be the only run of single weight Lodima.

    I don't blame someone for purchasing a known product they can use today. Over the last 2 years, I've managed to acquire what I believe is a lifetime supply of Azo in 8x10 grade 2 and probably 8x10 grade 4. What I still need is some 8x10 grade 3 and 20x24 grades 2 & 3. Keep in mind that I am an enthusiast, not a producing photographer like Ryan and so many others on this forum so my lifetime supply is probably much smaller than others.

    I've learned to tune my negatives so that I can get the most from the Canadian grade 2 Azo.

    I wish M&P were able to announce that Lodima was ready to be produced, and that we could expect to receive it by summer, but that just isn't going to happen.

    The way I see it, there is very little downside to stocking up on Azo. It will last for decades, unlike almost every other currently available B&W paper. My negatives print well on Azo. Afterall, M&P tried to set aside a lifetime supply of Azo for themselves, so they must have had some reservations on the timiing and possibility of Lodima making it to market.

    Again, for all of us, I hope Lodima is a smashing success.....and SOON!

    Your thoughts?
     
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  15. User Removed

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    Very true, John. One must keep producing the best images they can until the paper becomes available, even if that means paying several dollars a sheet for paper.

    If you really think about it...how much does it cost a digital photographer to produce a print in which he is using the highest quality rag paper, along with the highest quality inks? I'm sure around the same price per print, if not more!

    As long as your producing good prints, the cost should hopefully not be a concern. Even if one is not selling their work, seeing a beautiful print they have produced is very rewarding and well worth it.

    Having your negatives all consistent so you can print on one grade paper and not have to be making several test strips for each image is the best way of working. I produce A LOT of work each year, but have my printing down to where I usually don't even need to make test strips because my negatives are consistent. By doing this, I'm only using about 5-10% of the 100 sheet box for arriving at the final print, the rest is used for final prints. I know some people that will burn up nearly a whole box of photo paper just trying to produce one image.

    I know there is still many AZO users, or people thinking of using AZO that are afraid to place a pre-order with M&P, even though there is no risk involved. Michael is a very determined person and I would not even slightly doubt that this paper will not be perfect.

    I'm quite sure that M&P don't have what they would consider a lifetime supply of AZO left, so I'm sure they are wanting the paper just as much, if not more, than everyone else.
     
  16. bill schwab

    bill schwab Advertiser Advertiser

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    Do I remember hearing this paper was supposed to be available by Autumn of last year? Has anyone had the chance to try it yet?

    Bill
     
  17. User Removed

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    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 17, 2007
  18. robsoe

    robsoe Member

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  19. Curt

    Curt Subscriber

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    What were all of the photographs in history printed on; Azo? It is certainly one of, if not the best, contact printing paper invented. Will we see another Azo paper, no, something very good, possibly. A lot of the old timers will pass away before an Azo clone is made, should they give up and stop printing or just use something else? It's a tough piece of leather to chew but there is really no choice, switch or quit.

    The most difficult part of the situation is asking artists to compromise. Sorry you can't have the best materials, instead you can choose from the seconds shelf. Now the seconds shelf is getting smaller and smaller as the future of film and photographic paper is shrinking.

    What will historians say about the work produced after the fall of Kodak and others? Will they describe it as saying film cameras got so cheap that anyone could buy a ULF on eBay and film came out that was cheap for the time, then the bubble burst when Azo contact paper ended and the film was seen as inferior causing the users to buy large runs of expensive film and print on a lesser appealing paper.

    Will they say that great film was available but poor paper? And will they say that contact printing on Azo paper was the only way to make fine prints and enlarging was a poor substitute.

    It will be interesting to see if photographs, no matter how mundane or poorly seen, will be collectable just because they were printed on Azo paper.

    We already see this in descriptions, "Photograph printed on Azo paper". Like Azo was the God of photography with Amidol as the Goddess. Instead of putting the description, "Moonrise over Rocks", should I put "An Azo Print" instead? I still have 2500 chances to make fine collectible prints printed on Azo paper, what's in your wallet?
     
  20. donbga

    donbga Member

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    I wouldn't count on that at all.

    Are you blogging or trying to make a point?
     
  21. clay

    clay Subscriber

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    Can someone name the great photographers of the last century who printed on Azo? Not trolling, just curious. I know that E. Weston used Haloid and some other now-defunct brands primarily. Any 'greats' who used this stuff?
     
  22. Dave Wooten

    Dave Wooten Subscriber

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    Clay I Can't think of any right off the top of my grey old head....lots of amidol users but no Azo? IMNSHO Azo is not the vital incredient.
     
  23. David A. Goldfarb

    David A. Goldfarb Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Hurrell used Azo.

    Otherwise the greats used DuPont Velour Black.
     
  24. jgjbowen

    jgjbowen Member

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    How many of us could name the papers that ANY of the greats used? I'm sure that like all of us, they used many different papers over the years because just like now, manufacturers were either discontinuing or improving their papers. The greats just didn't have the internet to share it with the world.
     
  25. Curt

    Curt Subscriber

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    The Oriental paper ad says print like Ansel Adams but after examining his portfolios I didn't see Oriental anywhere. I did see Agfa and a host of Kodak papers. I just reread his Biography, and the Day Books of Edward Weston and a few other books and I don't recall seeing Azo in any of these books. I am not saying that they didn't use Azo but I don't recall them saying it was the best or only way to go. Is Azo mentioned in the AA series?

    Azo on eBay allows me to discuss Azo paper, the demand, the substitute, any alternatives, the cost of the paper before, during and after its production, anyone using it and anyone collecting it and anyone wanting to use it. If my opinions offend you then go to ignore or put your head in the sand because using the words troll or blog is so grade school.
     
  26. User Removed

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    Ansel Adams once mentioned that the finest print he had ever made was on AZO. Besides for that, I don't believe he really used much of it at all.