11x14 project

Discussion in 'Ultra Large Format Cameras and Accessories' started by tim k, Oct 28, 2010.

  1. tim k

    tim k Member

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    A lot of you have helped me out sharing your wisdom and suggestions in planing my 11x14. So, I thought that I should give you guys an update with my progress.

    So far its been mostly a cabinet project. Nothing to exacting. As you can see I've got a long ways to go but there might be a little glimmer of hope. It was kinda nice to see it on the tripod for the first time.

    Its at about 11 pounds as you see it, so I might be able to move it without a fork lift when its done. So far I've used mostly junk around the house, but I'm going to have to start looking for some knobs and gears pretty soon.
     

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  2. Robert Hall

    Robert Hall Subscriber

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    Looking good Tim,

    Remember places like McMaster-Carr.com are your friends.

    Just do a search on knobs, for example.
     
  3. tim k

    tim k Member

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    Robert, McMaster Carr is where I plan to get the gear racks and knobs. I just haven't gotten around to it yet. I wanted to wait till I could figure out what all I needed so I could just do it all in one order. I had used them for my 4x5 parts, they have a pretty amazing inventory.

    I have found that the fewer boxes the ups man drops off, the better it is for domestic harmony.
     
  4. jp80874

    jp80874 Subscriber

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    Another source to compare is www.ReidSupply.com. Dick Phillips of RH Phillips cameras suggested them to me when I was looking for parts.

    John Powers
     
  5. tim k

    tim k Member

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    John, thanks for the link. They didnt seem to have as good a selection in the small light duty gear rack area, but they have got a ton of knobs.
     
  6. Jim Fitzgerald

    Jim Fitzgerald Member

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    Tim, awesome looking so far. Nice job on the metal parts. Did you fabricate them yourself? It is well worth the effort. 11x14 is a great image size.

    Jim
     
  7. tim k

    tim k Member

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    Thanks Jim,

    Yes I did the metal work. I have a little mill drill machine, and for this stuff it works just fine. The aluminum cuts pretty easy, and most everything is made from pretty standard shapes. Although I have to admit, I'm a bit of a scrounge. I made the rear swing plate from an I beam that I saved from a patio cover I took down at work, and a couple shapes did come from the dumpster.

    Might be a good name for the camera, Dumpster Diver.
     
  8. Erik L

    Erik L Subscriber

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    That sure is a beauty, my compliments! I'm sure it will satisfy you from the looks of things.
    regards
    Erik
     
  9. tim k

    tim k Member

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    Thanks Erik.

    Its like cutting wood it warms you twice. I think I get as much enjoyment out of the build as the photo process.
     
  10. Jim Fitzgerald

    Jim Fitzgerald Member

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    Yes the build is always fun. For me it is when I get to the finish and polishing part. Love cutting and shaping, but sanding and polishing wood is the best. I finished my front bed last night and it looks good.

    Jim
     
  11. tim k

    tim k Member

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    There is just something special to the feel of hand rubbed wood.
     
  12. Jim Fitzgerald

    Jim Fitzgerald Member

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    Tim, I know what you mean about the feel of hand rubbed wood. Let me know how things are going and get some pictures up when you can.

    Jim
     
  13. tim k

    tim k Member

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    Life has been getting in the way lately, so I have not made much progress. I'm thinking that I need to get the bellow going next, and I did actually go into a fabric store the other day. Its funny how the little old ladies check you out when your getting on their turf.
     
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  15. tim k

    tim k Member

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    Goofey idea or interesting idea, genuis or just plain nuts?

    Well, I've made a little progress. The bellows are almost on, I've picked up a couple of lenses, and the lens boards are ready to go. So now I'm starting to think about the backside.

    Feel free to tell me if you think this is a stupid idea.

    A few weeks ago I had a chance to play with an old wooden folder where the rotating back was held on by the four pins, and spring clips that slipped over the pins. I was impressed with how easily the back went on and off.

    So I'm thinking, this is easier than inserting a film holder in a spring back. Here's the idea. No spring back, no traditional film holders. The ground glass just comes off after focusing. (I'm planing on some sort of Plexiglas for breakage issues.)

    Then build a few double sided film holders that attach to the same pins that hold on the ground glass frame. I've got an idea in my head that should be rather easy to do. The film holders are basically 16 1/2 inches square, with magnetic masks to hold the film in place. They could be used to hold any size sheet film, with just a mask change. I should be able to almost hold 14x17, with 11x14 being the intended size. And they should be easier to load than standard holders. They would be a touch thicker, and of course larger than standard holders.

    So what do you all think?
     
  16. Curt

    Curt Subscriber

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    I like the idea of multiple formats. Yes that sounds really interesting. I'd love to see some bellows pictures and a description of your approach.

    I'm at the stage were you were when you posted the picture. I have a bellows and back to do.

    Great work Tim

    Curt
     
  17. tim k

    tim k Member

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    Curt,
    Here are a couple of shots I took with my phone. Don't expect much. I just wanted them for a reference, should I need them later.

    What I did;
    The ones that look like abstracts are after the ribs were glued to the liner. I used a .012 thick fabric I found at JoAnn fabrics. It was black with a shiny vinyl coating, it was also almost light tight. The ribs were just photo paper, Ilford rc I think. For the exterior I used a very dense fake suede material, it was something like .009 thick. Both of the layers sealed the light tight deal just fine.

    What I did wrong;
    If I were going to do this again, I would use a little thicker rib material. I was worried that with all the folds the thing wouldn't fold up in the camera, so I was trying to keep everything as thin as possible. On paper it added up to something just under two inches. However with the taper in the bellows it folded into pretty much nothing, about an inch. The material I used on the outside, while (in my mind) looked good, it was a stretchy material. Didn't notice it when I purchased it, but it was a serious pain to glue the inner assy. to the outer skin. I'm not so sure I would have made the bellows so long either. My pattern just barley fit on 54" fabric. I will however be able to shoot fly teeth at 1:1.

    The last picture is how it sits this morning. In all its glory, wax paper ground glass and all.

    If you have autocadd I'd be happy to send you my bellows layout.

    Good luck with yours.
     

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  18. Jim Fitzgerald

    Jim Fitzgerald Member

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    Tim, that is looking awesome! Nice going.
     
  19. tim k

    tim k Member

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    Thanks Jim
     
  20. Curt

    Curt Subscriber

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    Hi Tim,

    I've been under the weather for a few weeks but I've been following the threads on my iPhone. I have a bellows drawn in my Cad program and have made one in the past. For that one I used XRay film for the ribs and it turned out to be a little thicker than necessary. I used fabric at the time from the fabric shop and 77n spray adhesive and contact cement. I'm lucky to have purchased two large pieces of the bellow material that Porter's camera had before they quit selling it. Too bad because many would appreciate having a supply in the west.

    My camera is using the base of a Kodak 2D but built from there up. With film holders going for $345 new I'm forced by choice to go with my own build on them too. If I go at it I'm not going to be happy with one or two holders. That would be fine for a home setting but why drive out to a location and be forced to load in a tent or do without.

    I was thinking that the double sided holders was the way to go but what's the matter with single sided holders. A dozen would be about right. I was thinking about what you said about alternative holder designs. I am thinking of ordering some 10X12 film from the Ilford special order. A 10X12 would fit on an 11x14 sheet of paper for Carbon Transfer which needs a safe edge.

    The wood workers store has some really strong magnets, small but very strong, they sell them in sets as catches for cabinets. I was going to try a setup with them to see if they have the holding power. In the mean time I've worked out the routine, regular holder design. I may be short on metal working machinery but I'm long on woodworking tools.

    I have an older but new like Sterling holder, the double glass type, and measured the slides, Garolite, and figured the configuration by dissembling an older 5x7 holder. It's precision woodworking but not rocket science.

    Your camera is looking excellent, I used brass for the hardware on mine to match the original parts but on a future 11x14 model desgin like yours I'm thinking of aluminum with a powder coat. It's lighter than brass. I can't wait to get back to work on mine. It does take time to get these together.

    I'm making a spring back because I have the ground glass and springs for an 11x14 already here.

    Best,
    Curt
     
  21. largeformat pat

    largeformat pat Member

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    Tim,
    I have viewed the link and your support, Well done to you and the encouragement given. I'm planing to modify a back and have new bellows to suit my cambo scx. I'm thinking of 11x14 or even 16x20. Good luck and I will wish all goes well, I do know as others the frustration of such tasks.
    Pat
     
  22. tim k

    tim k Member

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    Thanks Pat,
    Things are progressing, a little bit slow, but still moving forward. The back is pretty much done, and I was able to put her on the tripod and have a look see a couple of days ago.

    Here are a few things that I have noticed, what you guys told me about depth of field, well, its pretty much true. Focusing doesn't seem as critical as the 4x5, seems to move in and out of focus slower if that makes any sense. And my old dark cloth looks so cute hanging over this buggar. Guess I need to upgrade.
     
  23. vpwphoto

    vpwphoto Member

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    Wow... using plans or building as you go?
     
  24. tim k

    tim k Member

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    I'm pretty much making things up as I go. Pictures on the web, and the advice I've been getting here, have been keeping me in between the lines. (I hope.) :whistling:
     
  25. vpwphoto

    vpwphoto Member

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    That bellows making looks interesting. I built a sailboat from scratch, (10 year project) but had the sails made, I don't think I would have the patience to fold bellows.
     

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  26. Curt

    Curt Subscriber

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    The folding is easy.... if the layout was correct.

    I got my first box of Kodak Green 11x14 film, it's 11x14 minus 1/32" on each dimension. I'm starting the film holders next, it's going to be work, fine work, fine woodwork to be exact but what the hey.

    Bellows length, 24" or 32"? If my patients run out I'll break down and order one; right around $400.00, ouch. Life is short and I must move on though. That's 20 hours of work at $20.00 per hour, if I could make a bellows for $20. an hour and the time to make one is 20 hours. Think one can be made to match the best commercially made bellows in just 20 hours? What's a person's time worth?

    Funny thing, 11x14 looks kind of small and 8x10 sheets looks, well, tiny. Oh No!

    Tim, is there any part of your project that you won't be making?

    Curt