3d printed LENSES---WHUMP THERE IT IS

Discussion in 'Camera Building, Repairs & Modification' started by johnielvis, Sep 4, 2013.

  1. johnielvis

    johnielvis Member

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  2. Mustafa Umut Sarac

    Mustafa Umut Sarac Member

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    As usual as at all science magazines , they cooked a frozen 30 years old chicken meat again and again.
     
  3. Dinesh

    Dinesh Subscriber

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    Yes but 30 year chicken has beef of two hovercrafts what are now scratched.
     
  4. AgX

    AgX Member

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    I understand how one could print a level surface by this method but not, as described in that article, how to make a spherical surface.

    I could imagine though printing a terraces-like surface and then heating it (when thermoplasts are used) to gain smoothness. Though I doubt that one could gain a the appropriate curvature. The less with that immediate curing process.

    But seemingly that is the way to go. But would that not yield a surface made up by flattened droplets? With distinctive circumferences?
     
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  5. momus

    momus Member

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    No, the future does not look clear and bright. Wherever did you get that? Been reading the news lately (meaning the last 100 years)? You cannot, nor probably ever will, make a high quality optical lens from 3-D printing. Come on. The Jetsons is a cartoon.
     
  6. mrred

    mrred Subscriber

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    That 3d printing is a walking patent law suit. That being said, I'll let lomo make cameras out of plastic as they actually have experience with it.
     
  7. AgX

    AgX Member

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    Momus,

    If you print one droplet and besides it three droplets stacked, and a third on both stacks, the third might form a curvature. But even if that curvature would be perfect, how to blend all this curvatures into one smooth plane?
     
  8. michael_r

    michael_r Subscriber

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    I don't know. This technology is in its infancy from a consumer perspective. So saying it will never happen is like watching the Wright brothers' flight in their piece-o-crap and saying "this will never be any good".
     
  9. ntenny

    ntenny Member

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    It doesn't go into detail, but I can imagine some approaches. Rotating platforms like potter's wheels, turning on the UV "fixer" in different areas at different times, things like that.

    The article is careful to say that they're only doing "non-imaging" optics, but as anyone knows who's ever mounted a plastic magnifying glass on a Speed Graphic, imaging quality is very much in the eye of the beholder. I think it'd be interesting to see what could be done with a simple meniscus lens formed by this approach.

    -NT
     
  10. MattKing

    MattKing Subscriber

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    The argument in this thread reminds me of a lunchtime discussion my Dad passed on to me from a couple of decades ago.

    It took place in the lunchroom at the Kodak Canada lab and office in North Vancouver, BC Canada.

    The first snippets of information about Kodak research into sensors for digital still cameras had recently been made public, and Dad expressed concern about the possible effect on Kodak's film business.

    Most of the rest of those at the table (engineers, business managers, lab people) were of the opinion that there was nothing to worry about :blink:.
     
  11. Ken Nadvornick

    Ken Nadvornick Subscriber

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    When one is standing in the surf at the beach as the waves gently lap around one's feet, it is virtually impossible to pinpoint the exact moment the tide stops coming in and starts going out.

    But it does...

    :wink:

    Ken
     
  12. Perry

    Perry Member

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    lenses

    Funny - the article was quite clear I thought regarding the methods and technologies used to create the objects. Surely the lenses won't be any worse in acuity than a fresnel; and they are remarkable for some uses.

    I knew the guy that made the molds and the lenses for the girly peepscope keychain things available during and after the War; he did the lens molds on a Bridgeport (cherried out 100 to a sheet) and they cast the clear plastic lenses from them. Sold millions. Nobody ever complained about poor quality...

    Times change and technology changes with it. Who knows how many 'plastic' lenses we've been using over the years already.

    Perry
     
  13. ntenny

    ntenny Member

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    It's clear on how they get a smooth surface instead of individual voxels, but not on how they control the curvature, which I think was what AgX was asking about.

    -NT
     
  14. AgX

    AgX Member

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    No , I guess I understand that curvature thing but still that voxel thing remains.
    But I forgot that it was about lighting optics. So most probably a micro-wobbly surface would not matter at all.

    Concerning imaging optics it seems to me that a printing process with subsequent hand polishing could not cope with traditinal glass grinding and polishing techniques.

    But for some DIY-Projects?
     
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  15. Dan Fromm

    Dan Fromm Member

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    I b'lieve that some aspherical surfaces in taking lenses for 35 mm still cameras are made by molding plastic on glass blanks. The glass pieces have spherical surfaces, the mold is aspheric. Don't know whether the plastic surface is touched up after it comes out of the mold.
     
  16. Mustafa Umut Sarac

    Mustafa Umut Sarac Member

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    Some of the big names on 3D Printing Factories , print excellent plastic front and back , colored or transparent car prototype lights. They do excellent job. These new companies and the people are polishing their inventions on magazines are for high school children who reads and say woa. The real thing about 3d printing , its a patent battle , even the most idiot idea is patented and new companies are the ones who turns around the patents. Its not about finding a better technology , its about finding a different technology. They would hire a small plant , put the machine in middle of it and may be make products for military orders. And after 10 years , they close it. Thats what liberal economy offers , be famous for few days , be rich for few years.

    Dan , I bought only one digital camera in past with 11 aspherical lens elements in a zoom. Zeiss Tessar Zoom. High end factories uses cnc grinded aspherical lenses , I asked to zeiss to make one for me and they asked 1500 euro , 2000 dollars.
    Other way is zeiss again , heat smoothed glass and cold pressed aspherical lens element.
    Third way is to injection mold of aspherical element.
    Fourth way is to attach a plastic aspherical element on to glass spherical lens.

    Umut
     
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  17. Mark_S

    Mark_S Member

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    One of the advantages of 3D printing over other types of manufacturing is that you have the ability to change the material during the deposition as well as the shape, so you could in theory make a lens which was planar on both the front and back surfaces, yet bent the light like a curved lens by appropriately varying the refractive index of the glass within the body of the lens. This gives lens designers another degree of fredom to play with as they come up with new lenses. Technology isn't there yet, but it's coming.
     
  18. AgX

    AgX Member

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    But this is basically classic moulding. You calculate shrinkage and make the appropriate mould. In any case you get a smooth surface once you use a polished mould.
     
  19. mrred

    mrred Subscriber

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    I used to be a jet engine mechanic in the military in my wild youth. This whole concept is very similar to what happened with that industry.

    It's not so much of the design of jet engines changed, in concept, over the years. The refinement came from new ways of manufacturing the components and the materials used to construct them.

    Comments were made that the plastic would not be near as good as the glass, but if this history will teach us, materials will be discovered/developed to meet any end sought.

    Maybe new film cameras will be made, with a decent build quality.
     
  20. johnielvis

    johnielvis Member

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    it's possible for local curvature to be very tightly contolled. When liquids are in small droplets, the main force that dominates is the surface tension. the curvature can be controlled by "droplet" size--pulling against gravity or some other controllable force (static electricity? air pressure?) Gravity is best because the gravity pull can be varied by droplet size as well as the surface tension pull effect. It's just a matter of balancing the forces--tight control over particle size. Other ideas will come.

    another idea just came--forced resonance vibration can provide controlled shapes for the droplet surfaces as well--the droplets can be made tiny enough to where the surface tension absolutely dominates over all other forces, then appropriate sound frequencies can be used to make a resonance shape a la fourier synthesis.
     
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  21. AgX

    AgX Member

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    "Music to make lenses with"