4x5 Lens on 6X9

Discussion in 'Large Format Cameras and Accessories' started by laroygreen, Jan 27, 2013.

  1. laroygreen

    laroygreen Member

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    I am planning to buy the Shen-Hao TFC69-A, which is a view camera with full movements but with 120 roll film. I have a 4x5 camera, and a 180mm lens, so I am wondering what the crop factor is for using 4x5 lenses on 6x9, e.g. on APS-C, a 50mm full-frame lens is a 75mm equivalent (I believe, haven't used digital in while :D)? Hopefully, I would like to only invest in 4x5 lenses and mount on small boards which I can use between cameras. The Shen-Hao can accept lenses from 52mm - 190mm.

    Also, in terms of bellows, would I still be limited to the 190mm equivalent (so if the crop factor was 2x, then I would only be able to use 4x5 lenses up to 95mm) or could I use an actual 190mm 4X5 lens (I highly doubt it, but its worth asking :D)?

    Thanks!
     
  2. ic-racer

    ic-racer Member

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    I'm not sure what you mean by crop factors or APS-C but the diagonal of 6x9cm is around 105mm and the diagonal of 4x5" is around 150mm. A 180mm on 6x9cm camera is slightly long. In general, lenses that cover 4x5" format will work fine on your Shen-Hao TFC69-A.
     
  3. nicholai

    nicholai Member

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    As far as my knowledge goes, 190mm focal length is 190mm focal length regardless of format, only the angle of view will be different.
     
  4. Dan Fromm

    Dan Fromm Member

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    Oh, dear. Focal length is focal length. Extension is extension. You don't need no steenkin' crop factors. Put the idea out of your mind.

    Now, about the little Shen Hao. Cute little camera.

    The manufacturer's spec sheet (http://www.shen-hao.com/PRODUCTSabout.aspx?i=933&id=n3) says that minimum extension is 52 mm, maximum is 190 mm. Any lens with a flange-focal distance no shorter than 52 mm and no longer than 190 mm (but read on about longer lenses) can be used on the camera. 47/5.6 SA XL and 45/4.5 Apo Grandagon both have flange-focal distances > 52.0 mm, are probably the shortest lenses you can use. A plain 47/5.6 SA "multicoating" in #0 should just make it. My older 47/5.6 SA in #00 won't quite. At the long end, if you want to get reasonably close (1:10) the longest lens that will work without heroic measures (extension tube between shutter and board, "top hat" board) is around 170 mm. A lens with 190 mm flange-focal distance will just focus to infinity, and no closer, on the little Shen.

    I shoot 2x3 with, mainly, Graphics. No movements to speak of. I also have a 2x3 Cambo monorail, prefer the Graphics. You can read about how I've used them at http://www.galerie-photo.com/telechargement/dan-fromm-6x9-lenses-v2-2011-03-29.pdf If you need movements, a Graphic is not for you.

    ic, the normal focal length (= format's diagonal) for 2x3 is 100 mm. To my way of thinking, 180 is more than slightly long. I'm a little surprised that it doesn't offer double extension, I've always thought that was the norm. Oh, well.
     
  5. laroygreen

    laroygreen Member

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    Ohhhh, shame on me!!!!! I forgot that it doesn't matter on large format. Thanks for the clarity guys!

    @Dan Fromm - I'll give your guide a read, thanks!
     
  6. F/1.4

    F/1.4 Member

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    180 is like a short telephoto, on 645 140-150mm is a good head and shoulders portrait length.
     
  7. Dan Fromm

    Dan Fromm Member

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    Yeah, yeah, but 645 is half frame 6x9.
     
  8. DREW WILEY

    DREW WILEY Member

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    Anyone speaking digitalese should have their mouth washed out with soap before posting again. 6x9 is
    a different shape than 4x5, so an exact ratio makes no sense anyway. Being a smaller area of film potentially requiring more enlargement means you will want very sharp lenses for high quality work.
    I personally often use a Fuji 180 with 6x9 exposures and it is a superb performer. It has about the same "feel" as when shooting a 240 on 4x5, but again, a little more linear or panoramic rectangle.
     
  9. E. von Hoegh

    E. von Hoegh Member

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    "crop factor"? Cropping is done under the enlarger.:wink:
     
  10. 250swb

    250swb Member

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    The 'standard' focal length on almost any traditional folding 6x9 camera is 105mm. So a 180mm lens would be a medium verging on long telephoto equivalent if you accept the 105mm standard lens analogy. So for instance a 90mm (Angulon perhaps) would therefore be a slightly wider than standard lens, perhaps (off the top of my head) a 40mm equivalent in 35mm terms.

    Steve
     
  11. Dan Fromm

    Dan Fromm Member

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    Funny you should say that. Nominal 6x9 is more or less 56 x 81, whence its normal focal length is 100 mm. Slightly longer tessar types were used on 6x9 folders to improve image quality in the corners a little. 35 mm still is 24 x 36, whence its normal focal length is 43 mm. That 35 mm cameras are usually supplied with 50 mm lenses is due to an historical accident.

    The two formats have the same aspect ratio, so comparisons between them are easily made. A 90 mm on a 2x3 (nominal 6x9 is actually 2.25" x3.25", usually called 2x3; 6x9 is a lousy metric approximation) is sees the same view as a (90/100)*43 = 39 on 35 mm still. A 180 on 2x3 sees the same view as 1.8 * 43 = 77 on 35 mm still. Short verging on medium tele, I'd say.
     
  12. DREW WILEY

    DREW WILEY Member

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    105 was the mfg "norm" for both taking and enlarging lenses per 6x9. For example, Both Fuji and Nikon
    make 105 plastmats, and I personally own one of the relatively rare 105 Nikkor M tessars. But what is
    "normal" to your personal way of looking at things is a completely different issue. I mostly use 85mm
    with my Nikon 35mm camera, a 165 with 6x7, 180 or 200 with 6x9, 250 with 4X5, 450 with 8X10;
    in other words, all these have an analogous angle of view which is natural for me. Someone else might
    have a completely different notion of first base. Strictly defined, normal is equal to the diagonal of the
    film; but who gives a damn?