4x5 Replacement for Ilford Panf+ (Efke 50?)

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by Rui.Cardoso, Aug 20, 2007.

  1. Rui.Cardoso

    Rui.Cardoso Member

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    Hello All,

    I'm starting with 4x5, for my 1'st shoots I'll be using some Rollei SD and Tri-X a friend gave me, but the film I usually use in 120mm is Ilford PanF+.

    I know that PanF+ is not available in 4x5, so I was wondering if there could be a close match for it. What I'm mostly looking for are the contrast and tonalities of PanF and not specifically the speed. Any ideas?

    When looking for information about this on the net I came across Efke 50, from the limited information I could get about this film, it sounds something I might try, but there's nothing telling me that this is what I'm really looking for. Does anyone have experience with both PanF and Efke 50?

    Thanks All,

    -Rui Cardoso
     
  2. bwakel

    bwakel Subscriber

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    I also use Pan F as my preferred medium format B&W film and when I moved to 5x4 I had the same conundrum.

    I've used Adox/Efke CHS25 developed in Neofin Blue which gives a similarly contrasty performance as Pan F and with perhaps even better tonality. The downside is that, for me at least, it feels very thin compared with Ilford film and curls up all the time. There have also been horror stories about banding and other emulsion issues with the Adox films which is something I've never experienced with Ilford.

    Because of these issues I generally use Fomapan 100 which gives less contrasty results compared with Pan F but the tonality is excellent and actually not too far removed from Pan F when printed on harder grade paper.

    Barry
     
  3. noseoil

    noseoil Member

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    Efke 25 (Adox 25)

    I would suggest Eke (Adox) 25 as a starting point to see what you think. The biggest problem I had with this film was its explosive reaction to full strength developers and very short development times. Once I backed down a bit on dilution, things were much better. I'm using pyrocat-hd (from photographers formulary, made with glycol because it lasts long on the shelf) with a dilution of 1:1:150 and getting very nice results now. You can also use rodinal at 1:100 or dilute hc110.

    Very nice film for tonality and contrast once you get a feel for it. Give it a try and see what happens. tim
     
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  4. Erik Hartmann

    Erik Hartmann Member

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    Why not look for FOMA film.... I have used them all the time I have been shooting LF....
    You kan get them from www.fotoimpex.de... or from http://www.retrophotographic.com/

    erik

    I develop FOMA in DiaFine or in APH 09 ( 100 Iso. 1:80 for 45 min and it is working)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 20, 2007
  5. Neal

    Neal Subscriber

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    Dear Rui,

    Try Delta 100. IMHO it is much closer to PanF+ than Efke 25. Keep in mind that I have not tried Efke 25 in sheets, only 35mm and it is a lovely film. No experience with Efke 50.

    Neal Wydra
     
  6. Tom Hoskinson

    Tom Hoskinson Member

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    Both Efke 25 and Delta 100 work well developed in Pyrocat-HD
     
  7. JLP

    JLP Subscriber

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    Tom, how do you develop Delta 100 in Pyrocat? Believe we dev TMY identical so i imagine that your Delta 100 time would be close to what i need to.
    Thanks.


    jan
     
  8. Thomas Bertilsson

    Thomas Bertilsson Subscriber

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    I would say it depends on what you photograph and what type of filtration you use. Efke 25 is ortho-chromatic, so orange filtration will not work like you're used to, and red will not work at all. Tones in the sky will be vastly different. Since you're on larger film, grain is most likely not an issue. I would try ISO 100 films. Delta 100 has been suggested. Daniel Lin uses that with Pyrocat-HD and it looks amazing in his capable hands. Efke 100 (panchromatic), and Foma 100 are good suggestions too.
    With that said, Efke 25 really is fantastic film. The slow speed in larger format forces you into reciprocity failure range quite often, though, with long exposures. But you can, of course, use that to your advantage too if you like shooting wide open.
    I would probably recommend Efke 100.
    - Thomas
     
  9. Rui.Cardoso

    Rui.Cardoso Member

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    Thomas is right, I forgot to mention something: I shoot mostly landscapes and most of the time through an orange filter.

    I understand there's an Efke Ortho 25 and a CHS 25, I assumed the CHS version would be a panchromatic film, isn't this correct?

    -Rui
     
  10. Ole

    Ole Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    AFAIK the CHS 25 is just another name for EFKE 25. It's not orthochromatic, but it's not quite panchromatic either: The sensitivity drops off sharply in the red wavelengths, so that you get very low sensitivity to red. It's called orthopanchromatic.

    You can use it with an orange filter, but the filter factor will be higher than with a fully panchromatic film.
     
  11. Thomas Bertilsson

    Thomas Bertilsson Subscriber

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    Ole, have you noticed that when using an orange filter with Efke 25, you get a different tone in the sky all the same, rather than using a truly pan-chromatic emulsion? I know that the filter factor will be higher, but is that really the only difference? I would imagine that you could darken a blue sky significantly since you're blocking those wavelengths quite effectively, but I've never really looked for the effect.
    Thank you for correcting me, by the way. Ortho-pan-chromatic from now on... :smile:
    - Thomas
     
  12. Ole

    Ole Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Yes, the tones really are different, just as the tones are different between high-and low-red-sensitivity films and high- and low-blue-sensitivity films!

    All films are not created equal, and some (FP4+ for example) have a lowered sensitivity to blue compared to some other films. And there was Tech. Pan which had increased red sensitivity, and various surveillance, aerial and IR films with extended red sensitivity (into the IR range) and so on...

    Efke 25 with an orange filter will only see yellow and orange, so you get a pretty monochromatic look at things. With a panchromatic film you get red too, which makes quite a difference.

    Different filters do different things to different films, so trial and error is the only way I've found to learn what the result might be.
     
  13. Chris Breitenstein

    Chris Breitenstein Member

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    I would avoid Efke films. At one I was a big fan and then I began to notice very odd banding in the film. it is especially noticeable on smooth tonalities (skies, asphalt, grass, anywhere you have similar tones covering a majority of the image. Plus Efke 25 and 50 are orthochromatic, where pan F is pan chromatic. In other words Those two Efke films are not sensitive to reds. which means the excessive sensitivity to blue often leads to "bullet proof" skies, and other items that are blue. Red filters produce a horribly flat images, and require a filter factor of about 8 in order to get a printable neg. Efke films also scratch very easily. one good thing about efke is that it pushes very well. If you are going to use Efke i would recommend their 100 speed film, its pan chromatic.

    in 4x5 films I would have to recommend Bergger bfp200. This film is great, but expensive. I have that when coupled with ABC pyro it produce prints that really exceptional. This film dosen't push as well as Efke, but the over quality is much higher.

    Currently I shoot Ilford fp4 which is in the middle as far as price is concerned, and prints better then both Efke and Bergger. When it comes to pushing the film Ilford is wretched!!! It seems as though after fifteen minutes no more development occurs, and stain begins to increase very rapidly (with ABC Pyro).

    I found this out through experimentation with my personal "system." If I were you I would buy a box of all films your interested in and try them. You may find that all of us wrong and "Lucky" (the Chinese brand) is the best film for you. try 'em out and tell us what you think. Your opinion is by far the most important when it comes to your work.

    Yours:
     
  14. Tom Hoskinson

    Tom Hoskinson Member

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    Jan, I develop for 16 minutes at 72 degrees F 2:2:100 with semi stand agitation
     
  15. noseoil

    noseoil Member

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    Efke 25

    "In other words Those two Efke films are not sensitive to reds." Chris, not exactly sure where this statement comes from.

    Efke 25 is an ortho-panchromatic film (not very sensative to red), while Efke 100 is more of a straight panchromatic film.

    There have been issues with the Efke films, as you have mentioned, but I have found them to be reliable in their spectral response. There have been a few QC issues over the years, but I think you will find that Efke films have a pretty good following amoung the folks of apug. Since the original question was about Efke products in general, I think the original poster would be well served to at least try the 25 & 50 just to draw his own conclusions. tim

    P.S. Efke 25 / 35mm
     
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  16. Rui.Cardoso

    Rui.Cardoso Member

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    Thanks all for help!

    I think I'll get a box of Efke 50 and also some Ilford FP4. I think that even if in the end I don't stick to Efke, pricewise it sounds like a good film for experimenting as I'm just starting with 4x5.

    I used to shoot FP4 in 35mm before changing to PanF, but never tried it in medium format as I don't like it as much as PanF. With PanF out of the equation it will probably be a safe bet and I guess the grain won't be an issue in 4x5...

    Regards,

    -Rui
     
  17. JLP

    JLP Subscriber

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    Thanks Tom, That's quite a potent dilution. Will have to make some testing since i need to use continuous agitation on my 5x7 negs. Do use minimal agitation for 4x5 though.


    jan
     
  18. Ole

    Ole Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I read "those two" to refer to EFKE 25 and 50, both of which are orthopanchromatic. EFKE 100 is, as you correctly stated, panchromatic.
     
  19. Flotsam

    Flotsam Member

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    I always like Efke/Adox 50 rollfilm in the studio. I like the tone and it has an unusually small reciprocity failure effect which makes it nice for those long exposures.
     
  20. AlanC

    AlanC Member

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    Rui,
    I have no experience of Efke 50 but when I compared Efke 100 with FP4 in 5 x 4 format, I found the FP4 to be significantly sharper- enough to notice the difference on a 10 x 8 inch print.

    Alan Clark
     
  21. noseoil

    noseoil Member

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    Chris, apologies, didn't read your post well enough and you are correct! tim

    P.S. Thanks Ole.