5x7 film processing (JOBO with print drum)?

Discussion in 'Darkroom Equipment' started by Denis P., Jan 14, 2006.

  1. Denis P.

    Denis P. Member

    Messages:
    466
    Joined:
    May 20, 2004
    Location:
    Croatia
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    It was just a few months ago that I jumped into LF - with a 4x5 Speed Graphic.
    In the meantime, I decided that even bigger negs would be nice for contact printing, so I moved to 5x7 format. After some tinkering and woodworking, now I have a camera and back ready, and a box of 5x7 Efke PL100.

    However, I forgot that I can't develop 5x7 sheets in the same JOBO drum I have for 4x5 :sad:

    I checked the options, and since Expert drums are out of my reach (and wouldn't even fit on my old Jobo CPE processor), I thought about using the existing larger drums I have: a 4531 (print drum with magnet only and "ordinary" lid) or a 2553 (film drum with cog lid).

    I also found an interesting DIY solution (as always :wink:): see HERE.
    It works with the same drum I have - but I'd like to use it on my processor.

    So, the print drum would be nice, except I can't use it on my CPE processor, since I don't have a lid with a cog for it (see attached photo) - meaning I can't rotate it on my processor.

    Anyone have idea what I need to use the 4531 drum on the processor? I guess I need a lid with a cog - but the lid from my other tank (2553) doesn't fit!!!
    The print drum seems to have a slightly smaller diameter, and the lid won't "catch"... :sad:

    I guess another solution would be to use the same DIY "film sheath" from the above link in the other drum (2553) - I'd have to make a somewhat smaller "sheath" (since that film drum is slightly shorter), but the system would be more or less the same, right?

    I'd like to use the JOBO processor, since I already have it, and the rotary tank processing uses significantly less chemicals than trays, Combi Plan tanks, etc. - and I try to avoid tray processing due to danger of scratches....

    Any ideas? Suggestions?

    TIA,

    Denis
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Ole

    Ole Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    9,281
    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2002
    Location:
    Bergen, Norw
    Shooter:
    Large Format
    Four sheets at a time in a 2830 print drum works just fine. Just remember to have the emulsion in - backside towards the wall of the drum (sigh).

    You'll need the llittle winged spacer thingies, but not the film sheath - at least I haven't misse not having one?

    Before you ask, I've developed EKFE, Ilford, AGFA, Tasma, and Kodak film this way, both B&W and E6; both 5x7" and 13x18cm. And 18x24cm and 24x30cm. I scr*wed up one APX100 and one Ektackrome, but that was through putting them the wrong way (see above).
     
  3. Denis P.

    Denis P. Member

    Messages:
    466
    Joined:
    May 20, 2004
    Location:
    Croatia
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    You process those in the drum on the processor? Does that mean that your print drum has the lid with cog?

    Mine doesn't - that's the problem. And I can't use the lid with cog from the other (film) drum, since the diameter is apparently not the same :sad:

    I guess I'll try to use the "film sheath" thingy in the film drum - since that one doesn't have any ribs on the inside of the drum....

    Basically, it's a variation of the "taco" method - sans rubber band. The film is inserted on the "sheath" (which has ridges on the edges), and the sheath is inserted in the drum....

    We'll see... I need to get hold of the air dryer to make the "bubbles" on the sheath, so that the film doesn't stick to it....

    Denis
     
  4. Ole

    Ole Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    9,281
    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2002
    Location:
    Bergen, Norw
    Shooter:
    Large Format
    Denis, I don't even have the lift. But it should be easy to find a cog lid for the print drum.

    Oddly enough my 2521 film drum has exactly the same lid, and ribs on the inside...
     
  5. Nick Zentena

    Nick Zentena Member

    Messages:
    4,677
    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Location:
    Italia
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I think Denis has an old style print drum that's why the lid doesn't fit. Current 28xx and 25xx type drums are almost 100% the same. The 28xx print drums have the ribs to hold paper in place. The lid includes a cup to hold the chemicals. The 25xx tanks have a tube to complete the light trap and the lid has a funnel.

    Keep an eye out for a 2830 tank.

    Ole does your 2521 actually say 2521 on the outside? I've never seen a film tank with ribs.
     
  6. Denis P.

    Denis P. Member

    Messages:
    466
    Joined:
    May 20, 2004
    Location:
    Croatia
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    As for the 2521 drum - if it has the cog lid, it's actually 2523 - in Jobo nomenclature the final (fourth) digit marks the type of lid - "1" stands for "ordinary" lid, and "3" stands for cog lid, meant for rotary processors with lift...

    I also have the small 2553 drum - but it's too small to fit 5x7 sheet in there! It works quite nice for 4x5 sheets (for which it was designed, I guess). You can process 4x5 (9x12) sheet film in it with or without the LF reel - I did it both ways (see my older post about 4x5 processing in JOBO)....

    Finally, here's a quick shot that shows all 3 drums I have - from left to right:

    1) 4531 PRINT drum (with "ordinary" lid)

    2) 2551 (actually 2553, since it has the cog lid) FILM drum

    3) 2523 small drum for 4x5 sheet film (with cog lid).

    The 4531 print drum is obviously an older series, since the cog lid from the other two doesn't fit. There is probably some extension/adapter to make it use those lids.
    Back to German ebay! :sad:

    Denis
     

    Attached Files:

  7. Denis P.

    Denis P. Member

    Messages:
    466
    Joined:
    May 20, 2004
    Location:
    Croatia
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    DIY solution, as always :smile:

    Well, I couldn't wait to get a proper Jobo drum, so I followed the instructions from the link mentioned in my first mail (see LINK).

    The only modification is that I made such an insert for a smaller FILM drum (Jobo 2551/2553), so that I can use it on my Jobo processor with lift.

    The film adapter/sheath is done, now I just have to do a test run. It can accommodate only 3 5x7 sheets, bit it's better than nothing :smile:

    The attached photos show how it looks like - no big deal, really. It's a piece of PET plastic sheet I got in a local "Home Depot" equivalent, probably used in construction. Later I realized I could have used a large PET (plastic) Coke bottle (2 litre) or something similar, as long as the bottle is regular cylindrical shape...

    Anyway, using a hot air blower (the one used for stripping paint) I made relatively regularly spaced "dimples" to avoid film sticking to the plastic sheet, and to allow for anti-halation dye to be washed out in the prewash.

    I added a few plastic rivets/studs to keep the sheets from overlapping. Anyway, it's all visilbe in the photos.

    I'll let you know how the negs turned out. I don't expect much from the final shots, since today I exposed my first two 5x7 negs in a "new" camera (my "Chinadorff" :smile:), using a Packard shutter for the first time. So, the exposure was probably not quite right, but those two will do for a test of this developing solution. I just need to see if the development wil be even, without streaks, etc.

    The photos are attached.

    Denis
     

    Attached Files:

  8. Curt

    Curt Subscriber

    Messages:
    4,560
    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    Location:
    Pacific Nort
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Hi Denis,

    How did the sheet film in tank construction work out? Was the development even without streaks?

    Regards,
    Curt
     
  9. Denis P.

    Denis P. Member

    Messages:
    466
    Joined:
    May 20, 2004
    Location:
    Croatia
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Curt,

    The development in the assembly pictured above worked out fine - no streaks, development was even.

    However, one of the plastic "holding pins" left a mark on the negative.
    It can be taken care of by reducing the diameter of the head of that plastic pin, but I didn't do much about it, since a few days ago I got a "proper" Jobo print drum - 2840, which will enable me to develop 4 5x7 sheets at the same time.

    My DIY solution above definitely works, but lets me soup only 3 sheets at a time, which is not very practical :smile:

    Anyway, attached is a scan of the negative developed in it, with the arrow pointing to the only problem I found. Like I said, it could be solved by reducing the diameter of the plastic retaining pin, so it would not intrude into the image area.

    Scan is rather poor - the negative was scanned as a positive, and then inverted...

    Denis
     

    Attached Files:

  10. John_Brewer

    John_Brewer Member

    Messages:
    454
    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2004
    Location:
    Bristol, UK
    Shooter:
    8x10 Format
    You can of course unscrew the the cups and funnels if need be. I've managed to develop 5x4 film in the 15xx tanks by swapping the funnel for the cup. All my 5x7 and 8x10 I do in a 2830 too.

    Nick, my 2521 has ribs inside and says 2521 outside. I think Jobo may have used the bottom parts of 2840 print drums as these are identical in size to 2521.

    Denis, cogs and bits are availabe here http://www.firstcall-photographic.co.uk/scp/Darkroom_Equipment/Film_Processing.html

    I made a CPE2 pdf manual, 108 pages from the Jobo website. If anyone wants a copy (1.52mb) just email me.

    J
     
  11. Nick Zentena

    Nick Zentena Member

    Messages:
    4,677
    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Location:
    Italia
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I don't think my 2521 has ribs. I'll check later. I wonder if they just used what they had the most of -)
     
  12. Denis P.

    Denis P. Member

    Messages:
    466
    Joined:
    May 20, 2004
    Location:
    Croatia
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    John,


    You can imagine my surprise when I got my 2840 print drums (two drums, but only one lid - the one with beaker), and when I realized that the smaller bottom part is actually a 2521 drum!!!

    Yipee!!!

    Anyway, I now have two lids with cogs for this series (25xx/28xx drums) - to be used on JOBO rotary processors, and one with a beaker (to be used manually).

    I must admit that the more I see of Jobo stuff, the more it amazes me. Very ingenious stuff, and very exchangeable and configurable. Reminds me of Lego cubes :smile:

    In short, in the past several months, I managed to add several more drums and bits (4x5 reels, for example) to my collection, so now I'm pretty much covered in all formats I use on my old Jobo CPE 2 processor (from 35mm to 5x7).

    The more I use Jobo processor and drums, the more I like them :smile:

    Regards,

    Denis
     
  13. TimVermont

    TimVermont Subscriber

    Messages:
    433
    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2005
    Location:
    Boston
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    My 2521 is ribbed, so when I was offered a second one from a friend, I converted it to develop films by gluing in the little triangular tabs with polyurethane glue. I don't have a cup, so I just spot glued a center core in place -make sure it is centered- to take care of the light leak problem. As long as I am careful of the center core in loading & cleaning, it works well and fits my CPE.
     
  14. Denis P.

    Denis P. Member

    Messages:
    466
    Joined:
    May 20, 2004
    Location:
    Croatia
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Tim,

    You don't need a center core to make the lid light-tight.

    Just plug the bottom hole of the lid. Tested and tried. Works! :smile:

    BTW, I can't claim to have discovered that myself - one of the cog lids I got with my 2523 drum for developing 4x5 sheets already had a plugged bottom hole (looks original, too!).

    Later, when I got 2840 paper drums to process 5x7 sheets, I was wondering about getting (or making) extension center core, when I remembered that I don't need it at all! Just used the 2840 drum for 4 5x7 sheets yesterday (without the center core, with plugged bottom lid hole), and no light leaks!
    One out of four 5x7 sheets got "glued" to the inner wall of the drum, and was not developed properly, though :sad: Three out of four came out OK - not really bad for the first time....
    I'll have to be more careful next time, though, and watch carefully how the sheets go in. Either that, or make another DIY plastic "blanket" like the one I described earlier in this thread.

    Attached (bad) photo shows unplugged (usual) lid on the left, and the one on the right has the hole plugged. No big deal, a simple DIY job really - just use appropriate diameter rubber plug, or whatever is at hand :smile:

    Denis
     

    Attached Files:

  15. jonw

    jonw Member

    Messages:
    423
    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2004
    Location:
    Boise, Idaho
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I am very new at developing B&W and am also new to the JOBO system (less than 2 months).

    I Just learned from the batch I just ran thru my JOBO cpa2 this afternoon that while using the Expert Drum (3005)for 5x7 film or the older 3013 for some 4x5 film was that my film slipped down too far and I ended up scratching the emulsion on 2 sheets with a fingernail. I think I will try to use the smaller drums for the 5x7 film and save the 3005 for the 8x10 film. I can see where placing some tab inside the 3013 would be beneficial for the 4x5 film due to it sliding down too far inside the drum.

    When using the JOBO, I put the emulsion side out for processing. (If I am thinking of this properly, i.e., the side of the film exposed, is that the emulsion side?)

    I found the 3005 drum awkward with the 5x7 film, but given its length, would it work for 11x14 film when I move up to ULF?

    The bright side was I confirmed that my batch of DD-X 1:4 which was mixed 26 days ago was still good with normal development time. I messed up when I mixed the DD-X concentrate and mixed it all at once....:sad:

    Thanks for reading my rambling comments. JON