5x7 Kodak TMax 400 group buy

Discussion in 'Large Format Cameras and Accessories' started by L Gebhardt, Apr 4, 2013.

  1. L Gebhardt

    L Gebhardt Subscriber

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    Keith Canham is trying to get a group buy for TMax 400 in 5x7 size. I have committed to a few boxes, but he still needs more to meet Kodak's minimum purchase. So if you are interesting getting some of this wonderful film in 5x7 size please let Keith know by filling out this form http://www.canhamcameras.com/kodakform.html. He is estimating the price will be about $180 per box of 50, but he hasn't received an quote from Kodak.

    TMax 400 has great tonality and very good reciprocity characteristics, so it makes a very nice large format film. I shoot it along side Ilford FP4+ and it's indispensable when the wind won't let the trees stay still. I really hope to be able to get some in 5x7 where it would be even more welcome than in 4x5.
     
  2. matt miller

    matt miller Subscriber

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    Twice as much as Ilford. TMY is the best, but yikes.
     
  3. noacronym

    noacronym Member

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    Have things come to that now? Having to drum up a group to throw enough money at the film company before they can justify cranking up the machinery? Are we really at that point now?
     
  4. matt miller

    matt miller Subscriber

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    Been there for years with certain emulsions and sizes. It's surprising to you?
     
  5. noacronym

    noacronym Member

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    No--disappointing. Sad, actually. I suppose though, I'm not the first guy watching his life's work fade into antiquity before his eyes. But that's not the part that galls me. It's more maddening to see EVERYTHING that people do having to go to the same damn computer to do it on. Pretty soon there will be an "app" that makes vegetables without my having to fight the garden tiller to till up the garden. I LIKE fighting the Merry Tiller. And I like thinking about another picture I want to shoot next time I get my hands on a camera, while I'm fighting the tiller. If I only had an iphone, I wouldn't have had to chop all that wood this past winter. I could have whipped out my trusty iphone for firewood. There's an app for that. Absurd.
     
  6. L Gebhardt

    L Gebhardt Subscriber

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    There really aren't many 5x7 shooters so demand for 5x7 film must be fairly low. Especially for the Kodak stuff that is twice the price of Ilford. But it does have some properties that you can't get in the Ilford films, as good as they are.

    I am hoping the price comes in closer to the TXP price of $147 per box, but even that's much more than Ilford. I am surprised Kodak can make TXP a stocked size, but not TMY.

    There're plenty of things that the computer can't and won't ever be able to do. I suspect gardening is one of them (I hear the FarmVille food wasnt very filling). But the web will make sharing information about the process much easier. And my iPhone did nothing to chop firewood, but it does help me find a local guy to deliver it already chopped, or. He best wedge to get through the stringy elm I have falling every year.
     
  7. doughowk

    doughowk Subscriber

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    Wish I liked HP5 - it would save me alot of supply headaches. Currently, I'm using Tri-X in 5X7 for situations requiring more speed. Would love to have T-Max 400 in 5X7 (and all formats I use); but Kodak pricing is driving me to consider Fomapan 400. Oh well, life is too short to worry about the little things - grain ;-)
     
  8. DanielStone

    DanielStone Member

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    Its NOT hard to get Kodak to cut ANY current emulsion to ANY size requested(up to a point mechanically speaking), its just that it's hard to get all of the boxes needed to fulfill the order PAID FOR.

    Remember, Canham cameras is a business. They/he makes a cut/markup on the price that Kodak quotes per box. It might not be much, but I'm almost sure he doesn't coordinate these things solely out of the goodness of his heart, nor should he :wink:!

    But if an individual who feels comfortable collecting money from others worldwide, and doing it solely to help others out, and is willing to keep things in order, ship,etc. I'm sure the price can be a bit lower
     
  9. Peter Schrager

    Peter Schrager Subscriber

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    I'm the one who prompted Keith to get out the lead and get a group buy. I am also quite shocked that people here are reluctant to get this most amazing film. There are many good films out there but none comes close to TMY for large format;PERIOD....
    If anyone here had bought $10,000 worth of film last year how much would it be worth now?? You could easily turn around and sell it here or on Ebay. Sure bears the 1% in the bank!...
    how much is it worth to have what you need as an artist to have your materials in the freezer. I still am shooting 5x7 Tri-x that I bought in the nineties (100 sheets for about $105/box) It's also a pleasure just to pull out a box and defrost!!
    Is Kodak actually going to be here? A questions for the ages but if you got it then it's yours...
    have a great day everyone!!
    Peter
     
  10. DanielStone

    DanielStone Member

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    Hey Peter,
    I'd LOVE o join in on this group buy, however I'm staring at a large pile of 8x10 TXP I purchased from Badger Graphic last year. I purchased it as a "hedge", but also because I've read recently about some noticing serious base fog issues with TMY/TMY-2, even if its been frozen. I know that I've shot older(think 2002-2004 dated or so) TMY in both sheet form and rollfilm, and I had issues with base fog. I bought it from a guy closing his studio who had it FROZEN at at least O°F the entire time. Still had very noticeable base fog. Tri-X I've never had an issue with base fog like Tmax 100/400 has given me. I love love love the film, so don't get me wrong. But for long-term storage MY(and some others on the web, LFF IIRC) experiemce with TMY has not been too favorable more than a few years beyond the stated expiration date...

    Not trying to poo-poo this thread or cast doubt on a product, but just sharing my experience, and why I'm not chomping at the bit to buy in on this order here for a multi-year supply.Quality film isn't cheap, and it almost certainly isn't going to get cheaper.

    best of luck everyone with the order!

    -Dan
     
  11. superd

    superd Member

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    By the same token, why Kodak isn't putting up a freezer of their own and release film to public whenever order comes in. This way they could just crank up their system for a few days at a time and stop until freezer gets thinner. The fact is, Kodak has messed things up for themselves a long time ago and now, being only capable of having bean counters as top managers, does not care about what people like (or liked) or especially maintaining its image as a once top photo company. It's sad, but it's reality. Let's just hope Ilford keeps going and (maybe) Agfa emulsions get out again one day.

    I would also argue for the TMY superiority. No issue with you loving it to death, but there have been thousands of superior images created over the years long before TMY came to existence

    I don't shoot 5x7, so perhaps I'm a few years away from the same problem at smaller sizes, but I think it's criminal to charge what I hear.

    Am I reading someone correctly that Keith is putting a margin on this before group distribution? If so, then I'm sorry to point this out, but if Keith is actually putting a "group" together to make money on it, then I can't see how this is genuine. If you want to sell something, you invest in it up front. In other words, if he were sure there is sufficient market for whatever number of boxes this is about, than he should place such order himself and then release to public under whatever price he wants. And that would be fair and square. But to take commitments from people first, just to see how much he make on it, then it looks like a smoke screen to dim out the profit.
     
  12. DanielStone

    DanielStone Member

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    Keith(Canham) IS A BUSINESS

    Businesses NEED to make money to keep their doors open. Plain and simple. Just because you make cameras to consume the film you help arrange the sale/distribution of, doesn't make you a bad person...

    If everyone only did what they loved, many things wouldn't come to fruition. Making film included.

    Besides, wouldn't you want to be compensated in some small form for coordinating a buy-in?

    -Dan
     
  13. superd

    superd Member

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    To answer you simply: NO, if I were to arrange for something because there was no other way to do it AND cared for people who enjoy the same as I, then I make arrangements without putting profit into the equation. But that's me AND that is NOT my point. I'm not Keith and I don't use his cameras either, although I've read enough about them that I'm sure he puts out great quality products because you can't arrange for such support his products appear to have among the users. I made a remark about something that started out (seemingly) as a genuine offer to pool people together so an otherwise unavailable film can be purchased. Putting it together doesn't require much time or effort, especially for someone who is undoubtedly "connected". So, if this is about making a profit with pre-commitments then I would not join regardless of how badly I thought I needed it. Matter of principle for me.

    Again, just stating an opinion.
     
  14. Peter Schrager

    Peter Schrager Subscriber

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    daniel...u got burned...there is no fog issues w tmy and it freezes damn well...i just finished off some boxes slmost 10 years old...no prob

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk 2
     
  15. L Gebhardt

    L Gebhardt Subscriber

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    I have seen no fog issues on frozen TMY from 2004 used recently. I expect this new stuff to last equally well when frozen.

    Peter, thanks for committing to the initial boxes for this purchase. I mentioned it to Keith last year and he indicated it was had to fill the order the last time he tried. I have no idea why this is true. Let's hope enough others agree.

    As far as Canham Cameras making a profit on this, I would fully expect them too. From talking with Keith it's a minimal amount, and not something he is doing for the money. I get the impression his time would be better spent producing cameras, but that he sees this as valuable for the large format community. I don't know if Kodak will deal directly with individuals, or only authorized dealers. If someone trustworthy wants to contact Kodak, and collect orders (and money) and then distribute the film for less than Canham I'm sure a small bit could be saved for everyone. But I for one an happy to let Canham make his small profit, since I know I will get my film and I don't need to pony up the full amount that Kodak requires. I really don't understand the negativity in this thread.
     
  16. matt miller

    matt miller Subscriber

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    No negativity intended, at least not toward the film or toward Canham. It's just Kodak's pricing that's hard to swallow. I would prefer to use TMY over any other film. It really is the best I've used. I'd like to be able to commit to several boxes. With my current photo budget it just doesn't work out. Darn digital world!
     
  17. DanielStone

    DanielStone Member

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    Well if I got "burned" so be it, I wouldn't state what I did to be "negative" or condescending. If anyone took it it that way, maybe I just worded it wrong.

    So no "negativity" from my end :smile:. I'd love to join in on this group buy, however at the present time I have other more obligating financial commitments to attend to. I use TMY-2 in 120 regularly, and its my de-facto b/w film for MF shooting. And since I have a large stash of 8x10 TXP to be able to cut down, I want to work through that(and it will take a good long while!)

    Best of luck with the order, ya'll who commit and participate have my utmost support :smile:!

    -Dan
     
  18. L Gebhardt

    L Gebhardt Subscriber

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    I was mostly commenting on the negativity towards Canham cameras. I do appreciate the comments on TMY possibly not lasting in the deep freeze. It hasn't been my experience, but it still could be an issue.

    The price is high, but that's just the current state of Kodak film. Hopefully they will sell off the film division and the new owners will bring the price inline with Ilford's pricing.
     
  19. sepiareverb

    sepiareverb Subscriber

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    Very annoying to see so many people peeved about something they don't have to be involved with. The price is what it is. If you want to buy some here is a chance. If you don't want to buy some DON'T. It's not like Kodak will just snap their fingers and have the stuff cut and boxed up. A SPECIAL ORDER is just that - something that is not usual business, and in most any business I can think of doing something special order requires one to pay a premium.
     
  20. eclarke

    eclarke Member

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    Poll..How many of you work for free??
     
  21. DREW WILEY

    DREW WILEY Member

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    What thhh .... I've participated in several of Keith's TMY and TMX orders. He's gone out of his way to be helpful. He probably isn't making a whole lot of money at this, it's a fair amt of fuss for him to do it and ship it all out to each of us - and he never claimed to be a charity organization. Do YOU show up to work for no pay????
     
  22. k_jupiter

    k_jupiter Member

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    Seems like it some days.

    Now everyone go take your anti-anxiety pill and calm the heck down. I suspect Keith isn't making his 40% on this deal. It's one of those butter both sides of the bread kinda things. He makes a little money, gets people who bought or might buy his cameras the film needed to keep the art form alive. You don't have to buy 20,000 dollars worth of film just to get it. Imagine if someone arranged to have APX100 4x5 and 8x10 film come out again in the original Agfa emulsion. Would you care what anyone made on that deal? I wouldn't. Might sell my firstborn to get in on that one. *L*.

    So invest in 5x7 TMax 400 or don't.

    tim in san jose
     
  23. DREW WILEY

    DREW WILEY Member

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    I dunno about that.... For one thing, TMY is a 400-speed film and is just about as close to an ideal film
    for 8x10 as anything that has come along yet, at least in terms of a one-film-does-it-all (nothing really
    does that, but it's the closest thing yet for me). It's becoming the modern equivalent to Super-XX, the
    thing you reach for first because you know you can count on it in all kinds of lighting and wind and
    darkroom conditions. My wife was tallying up my film purchases last nite per tax returns, nearly all of it still in the freezer. It's like money in the bank. Most of it I bought at dramatically below the going rate in effect today, and it will probably be good for at least a decade, though I plan to rotate new inventory in bit by bit to keep everything relatively fresh. I shoot it mainly in 8x10 and for 35mm snapshooting. But 5x7 has such a beautiful proportion that it would be a shame if everyone had to cut
    their own sheets to this size. It has fine enough grain to optimize 5x7, while still offering speed.
     
  24. L Gebhardt

    L Gebhardt Subscriber

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    I just got a message from Keith Canham:

    Hopefully some of you 5x7 shooters out there missed this thread the first time around. Get your orders in and maybe we can get a batch of this made for us.