645AF vs RZ67

Discussion in 'Medium Format Cameras and Accessories' started by atlcruiser, Nov 10, 2010.

  1. atlcruiser

    atlcruiser Member

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    Hi All,
    I have a full 645AF kit, body, 2 backs, electronic remote, 35 Sekor C non AF lens, 55AF lens, 90AF lens, hoods, and all sort of other little crap. I love the entire set up for IQ, ease of use, value etc.....


    BUT........


    I bought a mamiya 7. I no longer look at 6x4.5 the same way. Honestly it sort of kills me to have this big, beautiful system (645AF) and the tiny negs.

    I am now starting to print the 6x7 form the mamiya 7 and it just blows me away.

    My thought and question.

    KEH has a deal on a 10% extra discount if you trade old gear for new gear. I priced my kit with the on line quote and it looks like about $750 worth of value to them to buy it.

    I can get a RZ67 body, 120 back and either 90 or 110 lens for about $350 - $450. A 50mm lens will add $200 or so, a few more backs about $50. Looks to me that, with the discount, I will come out either even or slightly ahead.

    With both systems I do mostly landscape sort of stuff.

    Slightly older system, fewer bells and whistles but bigger format and overall less expensive to add to....any reason not to do this?

    BTW: I can drive out to KEH and do all of this at once..I am local to them :smile:

    thanks
    david
     
  2. keithwms

    keithwms Member

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    Well, probably stating the obvious here but the mamiya 7 and the 645af and the rz couldn't be further apart in terms of how they handle. The best thing would be for you to spend quality time with and rz and see for yourself what it does for you. I love my rz pro 2... but I also have a pair of mamiya 6es, a 645 pro, a 645af, and an rb pro SD. They're all very different and serve different purposes.

    Since you are local to KEH why not go get an rz in your hands and see what you think.
     
  3. Paul Sorensen

    Paul Sorensen Member

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    The RZ and RB seem to be cameras that work best on a tripod rather than handheld. I have an RB and am considering selling it to fund a 645 non-AF system. I know that the neg is a lot smaller, but the handling for hand held work is a world better for me.

    In other words, I agree with Keith, they work very differently and the differences are far more than negative size.
     
  4. atlcruiser

    atlcruiser Member

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    I agree..and 4x5 is on the close horizon but for now I need to stick with MF until I am really ready to jump into LF.

    Mamiya 7 is my walk around MF. Sure, it can be set on a tripod and take great landscapes but it is RF and I dont get very good framing with it. The meter is a PITA but works well for handheld.

    I would rather have a tripod mounted SLR for studio style and landscape photos.

    The 645AF is almost 100% tripod mounted. Too heavy to hand hold and there is no point in killing myself when I have the mamiya 7.

    I find that I almost never use the 645AF anymore. Not that the mamiya 7 replaced it but I am not all that happy with the smaller format.

    None of this is really apples to apples...I guess it boils down to the fact I think I want a 6x7 SLR and I have a 6x45 SLR.

    The 645AF is a stunning set up in almost all ways but I am moving towards bigger and bigger negatives.
     
  5. whlogan

    whlogan Subscriber

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    Why compare 6x7 negs to 6x 4.5 negs regardless of how they were made. There is no basis for comparison here. The 6x7 is far too much larger and will always make a better print other factors such as focus, depth of field and printing issues being equal. 6x7 will always win. No contest here. Mamiya 6x7 lenses will carry this day every time. Trust me on this one!
    Logan
     
  6. atlcruiser

    atlcruiser Member

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    I am with you 100% :smile:
     
  7. TimmyMac

    TimmyMac Subscriber

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    The RZ is really unreasonably good on a tripod. I also shoot it handheld all the time with the 110/2.8, which really has no equal in 645 or rangefinder land. If you think you'll be ok with the size/weight, go for it. It's cheap and a fun system to shoot with. As a bonus, the Polaroid back puts out a pretty respectably sized image thanks to the lenses' coverage.

    I've got a 645 1000s system in the mail, just for the 80/1.9.
     
  8. DanielStone

    DanielStone Member

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    rz67's are beautiful beasts, large, but great cameras nonetheless.

    mamiya 7 glass is reputed to be sharper, but I can't seem to tell the difference between negs shot with my friends M7II(with the 80mm or 65mm lens on it), and my RZ glass with the 65ML-A or 110/2.8 lenses. Even the "inferior" 90mm(which is a carry-over from the RB-lenses, same glass in a newer electronic shutter) is super good.

    if you want to get a 50mm for the rz67, and don't want to have to worry about distortion, get the 50mm[b/]ULD[/B], its the bees-knees for WA on the RZ system, superb lens!

    -Dan
     
  9. SuzanneR

    SuzanneR Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I had a similar revelation as you, and ultimately sold a Mamiya 645 AF system, (negs were too small, I'd rather just shoot 35 mm with a smaller rig than deal with the larger 645 system for negs that weren't all that much bigger than 35mm) and decided to go with the RZ. I shoot both Mamiya 7 with (for the most part) the 80mm lens, and an RZ with the 110mm lens. I can get closer in shots with the RZ, and it fabulous for portraits. The 7 is sharp, and great for those wider views. (I did buy a 50mm for the RZ, and really like that lens, too, but the 90mm I have is less nice, somehow.) Anyway, these two systems work well together, and all my negs are the same format, which I like for consistency.

    And yes, and nutty as it sounds, I use the RZ hand held!! I rarely use both cameras at the same time, though!!
     
  10. kauffman v36

    kauffman v36 Member

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    i too got rid of my 645 rig and use my RZ along with a 4x5 field camera. I handhold the RZ all the time, i actually walked around all of south beach this morning with it hanging from my neck and on my shoulder, not too big of a deal once you get used to it.
     
  11. EdSawyer

    EdSawyer Member

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    Have both

    I have both a full Mamiya 7 kit, and a pretty complete RZ67 kit. They are both great, the RZ is pretty doable as a walkaround/handheld camera too. As mentioned the lenses for both systems are great, though where there's overlap, the 7's glass is a little better I think. Still, the RZ excels for portraits, closeups, tele shots, fisheye and many other things that you can't do with the 7. I use and enjoy both systems a lot.

    I agree, if you are going to do MF, 645 seems like a waste of time to me, I like it big, so 6x7 is the way to go in my case.

    Looking at the results I get from the Mamiya 7, I think 4x5 is almost superfluous in many ways. 4x5 offers movements, which I think is the only real upside. The Mamiya 7 results equal 4x5 practially, in many ways, with much more convenience.

    -Ed
     
  12. atlcruiser

    atlcruiser Member

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    The decision has been made! I called KEH and have a RZ67 Pro II, 50mm lens, 110mm lens, AE Prism, 3 120 backs, 1 220 back, strap, and hoods all set aside for PU. I will meet the purchasing guys at 2:30 to trade in the 645 stuff and walk out by about 3 with the RZ kit.

    Looks like I will be about $200 out of pocket. Of course I could do better if I sold the 645 piece by piece on e bay or uch but I am really tired of that stuff....seems SO much easier to jsut drop off and trade up :smile:

    I paid $450 for the 645AF, 55mm, 80mm, 2 backs, Metz flash. added the Sekor C 35mm to the kit for $250. I think it will work out in my favor overall.

    Thanks for all the opinions...we seems to be on the same page :smile:
     
  13. keithwms

    keithwms Member

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    The RZ has a reputation for mediocre glass? Since when? Sorry but that is complete BS. There is no such reputation.
     
  14. EdSawyer

    EdSawyer Member

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    Congrats! That's a great kit to start with. I started my RZ foray with something similar, basically the camera, PD prism, 50mm, 110mm and a couple backs. Later it got to be a slipperly slope and more lenses were acquired, etc. One of the best parts of the RZ system is the wide variety of glass available, it's really pretty complete. Much of it can be found for 10 cents on the dollar vs. original retail costs (which are/were insanely expensive, back in the day).

    -Ed
     
  15. stradibarrius

    stradibarrius Member

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    Hey David, I have a complete RB kit and I love using that camera more than any of my others. I have never heard anyone say the RZ glass was mediocre so I am going to cal BS too.
    I have two M645 bodies and a complete Bronica ETRS kit as well. I actually like the 645 format but I think you came out on top of this deal!!!
    The Mamiya 7 is next for me!!!
    The KEH guys are great and easy to work with. I live in the ATL area too! I wish we could get a group together.
     
  16. atlcruiser

    atlcruiser Member

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    KEH was very fair.....two of my 645 lenses are worth a bit but just not to KEH :smile: Fair enough! They will be on here and E bay later tonight.

    Overall the kit will be about $300 out of pocket and and about $100 real money when I factor in what i paid for the 645AF.

    It is a beast! With the AE finder on it I dont want to handhold it but W/O the finder it is OK...not much more than the 645.

    KEH bargin is great for me....very good stuff at good prices.

    Lets hook up! Hapy to let you play with my mamiya 7
     
  17. brucemuir

    brucemuir Member

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    the amazing thing is that Keh has BRAND NEW with warranty Mamiya glass for insanely cheap right now
    I think 645 mostly but also maybe some RZ stuff.
     
  18. keithwms

    keithwms Member

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    It's been true for some time, Bruce. Also, considering that you can mount the premium rb lenses on an rz, the deals are even better. I recommend the KLs highly.
     
  19. ContaxRTSFundus

    ContaxRTSFundus Subscriber

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    You'll be surprised how quickly you'll get used to the weight for hand-held work. I regularly used the shift lens (over1kg) on my ProII with the AE Finder and WinderII when shooting cityscapes and occasionally compounded this by switching from a 220 back to a Hasselblad digital back which is quite an additional weight. For a couple of hours, it's still fine but beyond that you can serious neck ache!

    I've just added a Fuji GX680 II to my gear - and suddenly, hand-holding the RZ is a joy by comparison!