6x4.5 Enlargement Advice

Discussion in 'Medium Format Cameras and Accessories' started by jamusu, Sep 30, 2008.

  1. jamusu

    jamusu Member

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    I purchased a Pentax 645 a couple of months back and made my first enlargement last night from a test roll. I'd have to say that I am amazed at the clarity of the picture. It is totally different from my Pentax K-1000, but I can still tell that it is a picture taken from a Pentax camera, (or maybe it is my imagination).

    Enough of the rambling. I have a few questions for those of you who shoot this format. They are as follows:

    1.) What is a standard size for setting the easel so that I can have even
    borders? It found it difficult to adjust my easel to have equal, or near
    equal borders for the picture. Is it possible, or is this just a drawback of
    the 6x4.5 format.

    2.) How many of you have an actual 6x4.5 negative carrier? If so does it
    make a difference in getting even borders for the enlargement?

    3.) What is the best enlargement lens for medium format? I have option of
    using a 75mm or 80mm lenses.

    Thank you,
    Jamusu.
     
  2. Nick Zentena

    Nick Zentena Member

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    Mostly the 80mm lenses are better then the 75mm models. Somebody made a 75mm APO high buck lens but most of the 75mm are lower models then the 80mm.

    A 645 holder might hold the neg flatter then a bigger one.

    6x45 is 3x4. So if you're really worried about borders try 12x16 or similar. Or worry less about the borders -)
     
  3. Thomas Bertilsson

    Thomas Bertilsson Subscriber

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    1. Whatever size you want. There are no rules. If you want to print full image size, I usually print 9x12" on 11x14" paper. That gives a full frame neg with 1" border all around. Or I print 6x8 on 8x10 paper with 1" border all around. Also full neg. But I crop everything, all the time, and never worry about getting everything that's on the neg on the print.
    2. I have a 645 carrier. It's great. a 6x6 carrier works fine too. As long as it holds the negative flat.
    3. 75mm - 80mm - I don't know if it matters. I have a 75mm and an 80mm. I use the 80mm because the lens itself is a higher quality lens, but that is not by virtue of its focal length. Small difference, if you ask me.

    It is nice to print medium format after having used 35mm. With that said, I like to go backwards too. Yesterday I printed a whole mess of 6x6 negatives, and to finish up I printed a full frame 35mm negative as a 4x6 on 8x10 paper. Looks great!
    Go nuts with it, break all the rules. It's liberating!
    - Thomas
     
  4. David Brown

    David Brown Subscriber

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    Yep!

    1) I print 6x8 on 8x10 paper. Matches the neg as close as you'll get (it's not exactly 6x4.5 cm) and has a 1 inch border all around. (edit - already covered) :smile:

    2) I have an actual 645 carrier for all the enlargers I own.

    3) Depends on the "medium format" - that covers a lot of territory. I use an 80mm for 645. For 6x7, I usually use a 105, though.
     
  5. vdoak

    vdoak Subscriber

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    Ditto

    a 645 holder will give you 11x14, or a 6x6 holder with a thin piece of black plastic/paper will give you 14x(what ever) or 10x(what ever). The paper I use for masking is 120gram black card stock. I have used fully fogged single weight fiber base paper with varying degrees of luck.

    I have an 80mm lens and a 75. The 80 is just better quality in my case. I suppose in this case what matters most is who made it with which materials and with what kind of quality control.

    go for it
    good luck!
     
  6. Jon Shiu

    Jon Shiu Subscriber

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    About the neg carrier, I use a glass 6x7 carrier so that I can keep the neg flat and print the whole frame, if I want to. The 645 neg carriers generally crop off a bit of the image area.

    Jon
     
  7. jamusu

    jamusu Member

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    Based off of everyones responses, I don't know if I should purchase the holder or just mask one!!! I don't know if I should crop or just print full frame. Right now I suffering from information overload and loving every moment of it!!!

    Please keep the responses coming!!!

    Jamusu.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 30, 2008
  8. 2F/2F

    2F/2F Member

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    DEFINITELY imagination!

    1.) The aspect ratio is about 4:3, or 1.33:1. This does not go onto standard enlarging papers quite perfectly. This means that there will be some white on one side if you print full frame (just like 35), or some cropping of the image if you print to fill the paper.

    2.) No need to spend any money on a special 6x4.5 carrier, IMO (if there even is such a thing). I use 6x6 or 6x7 carriers and make the borders with the easel, and/or when I trim to dry mount. In fact, I prefer have the hole on the carrier a little bigger than the neg.

    3.) Something in that range or longer will work great. A very nice quality 80mm will probably be quite reasonable on the used market, as they are very common.
     
  9. reellis67

    reellis67 Subscriber

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    Same here. The glass carrier holds the negative very flat and it's very easy to mask off the areas outside the negative with a thick, black paper mask. At first I went this route because of the cost of the d@^#&d things - outrageous, but then I grew to really love the glass carrier.

    - Randy
     
  10. MattKing

    MattKing Subscriber

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    In my case, there is no readily available glass negative carrier for my enlarger (Beseler 67C) so I have a different perspective on this.

    I have separate carriers for all the sizes I shoot (35mm, 6x4.5, 6x6 and 6x7) plus a 110 carrier as well. The carriers for the 67C are inexpensive on eBay, so if you are patient, it is easy to get a full set.

    I think you get better results with 6x4.5 negatives using a the 6x4.5 carrier with than an unmasked 6x6 or 6x7 carrier, so if you don't have a glass carrier, I'd look for a used 6x4.5 carrier.

    As far as the lens is concerned, the difference in focal length is small, so I would suggest looking for the best lens you can find in either focal length.

    Matt
     
  11. jamusu

    jamusu Member

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    I think I may purchase the 6x4.5negative carrier, but the the 6x7 glass carrier is tempting. Is it possible to get a 6x4.5 glass negative carrier? If not, is there a way to get the glass added?

    Jamusu.
     
  12. Jon Shiu

    Jon Shiu Subscriber

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    You can get a Anti-Newton ring glass from a 6x7 gepe 6x7 slide mount, sand down the edges, and then tape it to the inside top part of the carrier. You can also file out the 645 carrier to show more of the negative.

    Jon
     
  13. 2F/2F

    2F/2F Member

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    6x6 and 6x7 standard carriers have seemed to work perfectly fine for me. I tape down the negs and they are flat enough that way. Why the push for glass carriers or 6x4.5 carriers instead of using the 6x6 carrier that is likely to be included with an enlarger?
     
  14. jamusu

    jamusu Member

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    In short, the 6x4.5 carrier will crop some of the picture? Also, if I file the 6x4.5 carrier, will it leave those line markes around the photo?

    Jamusu
     
  15. John Koehrer

    John Koehrer Subscriber

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    If you're using a four blade easel it should be no problem to get equal borders with a two blade easel it becomes more of a problem because the top & one edge aren't adjustable.
     
  16. jamusu

    jamusu Member

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    John.

    I am using a four blade. For some odd reason I just want the 6x4.5 negative carrier. To me it makes more since to have it because it is designed specifically for 6x4.5 negatives, but based on some of the responses it may be a waste of money.

    With my flawed way of thinking, my Pentax 645 kit will not be complete until I have it.

    Jamusu.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 1, 2008
  17. reellis67

    reellis67 Subscriber

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    I don't think that it would be a waste of money - I mean, they were designed for that size negative. I used mine a bit when I finally got it, but by that time I had gotten used to the glass carrier and had developed (ouch!) the habit. I now use mostly 4x5 so it's a moot point for me, but get one if you want one. I too like to have the 'whole set' when it comes to tools - you never know when you will want/need them, so if you can find one for a price that you like, snap it up!

    - Randy
     
  18. jamusu

    jamusu Member

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    To stop the mental intensity I believe that I must purchase the pair of them.

    Also, I have an inquiry about the orientation of the paper while printing. In order for my enlargement to work I placed my paper on the easel longitudinally instead of latitudinally. Is this normal, or did I do something incorrectally?

    Jamusu.
     
  19. Jon Shiu

    Jon Shiu Subscriber

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    Hi, about the easel, you can turn the whole easel 90 degrees, or just the paper.

    What enlarger do you have? Some allow rotation of the negative carrier (Beseler) or allow inserting it from the side (LPL).

    Jon
     
  20. jamusu

    jamusu Member

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    Jon,

    The enlarger that I use is an Omega. I beleive it is a C700. I will check this evening when I go to the local art center where I print.

    Jamusu.
     
  21. Rolleijoe

    Rolleijoe Member

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    I have a Mamiya M645Pro, and use a 6x4.5 neg carrier. What size are you printing? I needed full frame, and using a 16x20 Saunders easel, there was no reasonable way to get FF (full frame) with a proper 5x7 border without losing some of the image.

    I'm using an Omega D5XL with Dichroic head and Omegatrol. Best enlarger I've ever owned. And it does allow rotation of the carrier, no problem.

    This was shooting with their 80mm N lens, and 210 C. So I switched to the standard 5x7 Speed EZL, and I had even borders and full frame image.

    A proper neg carrier is ESSENTIAL when printing any format properly.

    Rolleijoe
     
  22. Tom Stanworth

    Tom Stanworth Member

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    cropping or full frame is personal, but I like to print as I feel the image should be displayed rather than be constrained by the taking format. Its about vision rather than cameras surely...

    Glass carriers where possible are a very different beast to glassless. Crisp grain from corner to corner and to centre. Glassless just dont hold it flat enough IMO. You might be able to improvise. If not, the correct size carrier will help with flatness.
     
  23. jamusu

    jamusu Member

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    The sizes that I am printing are 8x10 and 11x14. I found the correct negative carrier. It is for the Omega C700. It should arrive anyday now. Is there any way that I can have glass added to it?

    Jamusu.
     
  24. jamusu

    jamusu Member

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    The 6x4.5 negative carrier arrived this weekend! Hopefully I can use it tonight!!!!

    Jamusu.