70mm Color IR Film

Discussion in 'Color: Film, Paper, and Chemistry' started by Mackinaw, Nov 9, 2005.

  1. Mackinaw

    Mackinaw Member

    Messages:
    390
    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2005
    Location:
    One hour sou
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    This is a shot in the dark but here goes. Does anybody know of any other manufacturer, besides Kodak, that makes color infrared film in 70mm? Kodak just discontinued their excellent CIR film in 70 mm and we're desperately trying to find an acceptable alternative for Forestry-based work. Any sort of tips, suggestions, etc, will be appreciated.

    Thanks,

    Jim Bielecki
     
  2. htmlguru4242

    htmlguru4242 Member

    Messages:
    973
    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2005
    Location:
    Sandy Hook,
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I'm pretty sure that Kodak is the only manufacuter of this film; I can't imagine why they'd discontinue it.

    They still manufacture Aerochrome III IR, which is a C41 fil, though I'm not sure if it's available in 70mm; I've only heard of it in 135 and 120.

    I don't know of any other companies htat make htis (at least in the US), but that certainly doesn't mean that they aren't out there. All literature about CIR photography seems to only mention Kodak's film. With AGFA, Ilford and Konica-Minolta discontinuing their IR B&W films, I think that Kodak & Maco are the only IR film-makers out there, but hte Maco stuff is only B&W ... (And as Kodak is discontinuing their films, Maco is introducing a new one, what does that tell you ...)


    <rant>It's really too bad what Kodak's doing to their film line, and the marketing people are going to be kicking themselves in hte face 10 years from now when they realize that the film market really was important, and that many people still do want to buy it. Discontinuing a professional aerographic film seems especially stupid, as there will always be a demand for it, or at least until digital aerial photography becomes cheap and capable of producing the quality and resolution capable with film. The Kodak people seem to forget that Kodak is wher e it is today becuase from the beginning, it was North America's pioneering film manufacturer ... </rant>

    anyway ...
     
  3. htmlguru4242

    htmlguru4242 Member

    Messages:
    973
    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2005
    Location:
    Sandy Hook,
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    oops ... double post
     
  4. claytume

    claytume Member

    Messages:
    279
    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2004
    Location:
    Wellington,
    Shooter:
    Med. Format Pan
    Jim......I know this doesn't help you but I threw away a few cans of it, was given to me, I mainly shoot 70mm B&W.

    I'll check the back of my fridge and let you know if anything escaped the clean up.

    Clayton
     
  5. colrehogan

    colrehogan Member

    Messages:
    2,016
    Joined:
    May 11, 2004
    Location:
    St. Louis, M
    Shooter:
    Large Format Pan
    AAACK!!! You didn't?!?!? That stuff is so cool!! I wish they made it in sheets!
     
  6. htmlguru4242

    htmlguru4242 Member

    Messages:
    973
    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2005
    Location:
    Sandy Hook,
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I don't mean to or have any right to criticize people, but I don't understand why people throw away film. I mean, unless its so old that bending the film causes it to crack, it's still useful for something.

    Even if you don't shoot the format, save it for something (pinhole camera, you may get a cam. in that format, you can always cut it down); and somenody else can always use it.

    And, hey, if you cant give it away, people will buy anything on EBay, so post it up there and make some cash ...

    And CIR film is quite cool; I'd love to find some, but the stuff that's being manufactured or the leftover stock is so expensive ($18 + for a roll of EIR is rediculous)
     
  7. jd callow

    jd callow Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    8,003
    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2003
    Location:
    Milan
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    What is Aerochrome III IR?
     
  8. htmlguru4242

    htmlguru4242 Member

    Messages:
    973
    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2005
    Location:
    Sandy Hook,
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Aerochroem III IR is a false-color infrared reversal film. According to Kodak's website, it can be Reversal processed (E6) or negative processed (C41), which is kind of cool... B&H sells it, though only in 35mm, and it's expensive ($533.00 for 400').

    I've never used it, but I've seen results from it that are quite nice ...
     
  9. colrehogan

    colrehogan Member

    Messages:
    2,016
    Joined:
    May 11, 2004
    Location:
    St. Louis, M
    Shooter:
    Large Format Pan
    It's still color IR, but can be processed in either AR-5, E6 to produce slides or, to produce negs, in AN-6 or C41 chemistry. Look under Kodak Aerochrome III Infrared Film 1443/Kodak Aerochrome III Infrared NP Film SO-734 for the tech data on Kodak's website.
     
  10. jd callow

    jd callow Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    8,003
    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2003
    Location:
    Milan
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Dev'd as E6 or C41? Do you know if it is in fact available in 120? Damn. I thought I had reasearched every colour material
     
  11. colrehogan

    colrehogan Member

    Messages:
    2,016
    Joined:
    May 11, 2004
    Location:
    St. Louis, M
    Shooter:
    Large Format Pan
    The development information gives information for the following formats: 70 mm, 5 in, 9 1/2 in. (I know, I could cut my own sheets, but the 5 or 9 inch rolls were up in the four figures for one roll and I have no way of cutting it myself.)
     
  12. htmlguru4242

    htmlguru4242 Member

    Messages:
    973
    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2005
    Location:
    Sandy Hook,
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I thought I'd heard of it in 120, though I can only find 135 and 9.5" formats. B&H sells both of them, though they're not available in small quantities. The 135 is $533 for 400', and the 9.5" is $1799; it could be cut to 120 if you have the time, equipment and a VERY DARK room.
     
  13. colrehogan

    colrehogan Member

    Messages:
    2,016
    Joined:
    May 11, 2004
    Location:
    St. Louis, M
    Shooter:
    Large Format Pan
    Here's the link to the Kodak page with a pdf file link at the bottom. If that doesn't work, search for Aerochrome III 1443 and it should be first on the list.

    http://www.kodak.com/eknec/PageQuerier.jhtml?pq-locale=en_US&pq-path=4013

    The pdf file is dated 2005 at the bottom. See page 6 for the film widths I quoted.

    I'd rather have it as 8x10 sheets (or 5x12 sheets!) :D
     
  14. Mackinaw

    Mackinaw Member

    Messages:
    390
    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2005
    Location:
    One hour sou
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Thanks for all of the replies. To give you some added background, I'm a Forester working for the Michigan Department of Natural Resources and have a real use for color IR film for our Forest Health work. We're using color IR to pick out stressed Ash trees that have been attacked by the Emerald Ash Borer (a hideous invasive insect that has the potential of killing all Ash trees in eastern North America). We've used Kodak 70mm color IR for years for all sorts of Forestry work but have just been informed by Kodak that they're no longer making the film in 70mm (we're using two Rollei 6003s' for this type of work, all aerial photography taken at about 5,000 feet). Without this film, or something comparable, we're effectively screwed.

    I have managed to find a reference to a Russian-made color IR film but have no idea of it's still in production or available in this country (my guess is no). Again, any and all suggestions and ideas are appreciated.

    Jim Bielecki
     
  15. jd callow

    jd callow Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    8,003
    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2003
    Location:
    Milan
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Jim, That sounds like great work. Can you create PO's? You may want to put an ad in the Classifieds here on APUG and see if you can find anyone who has a tin or two in the freezer
     
  16. Donald Qualls

    Donald Qualls Member

    Messages:
    1,845
    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2005
    Location:
    North Caroli
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Okay, it's sacrilege on this form, but ISTM it should be possible (even pretty easy) to process a digital false color IR image to the same color response as the Kodak film product (assuming you can't find a color IR that does the job). Whether it's financially feasible with your budget having to run through Congress is another question.

    The other (locally acceptable) option might be to shoot B&W IR (Kodak has also killed their 70 mm IR, I believe, but it should be a little easier to replace than the color IR) with synchronized frames in two cameras with different filters, and examining the images with color filtration that picks out the infested trees. Come to think of it, though, with Maco killing off IR820c and the 400 version not yet available in larger formats, I'm not sure there's a deep-IR emulsion available anywhere in 70 mm (you need perfed, right?).

    Might check if there's a motion picture emulsion that will work for you -- buying a couple thousand feet doesn't sound like it'd be a bad thing, if you have the budget, but you might have to invest in processing machinery too, since a lot of motion picture stocks aren't straight C-41 and very few if any in that size are E-6. IMAX gets their 70 mm film from somewhere, though...
     
  17. htmlguru4242

    htmlguru4242 Member

    Messages:
    973
    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2005
    Location:
    Sandy Hook,
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    It would be posibble, as Donald mentioned, to do this digitally. I have made false color IR images before by taking sequential images from a camera with different filters, and then combining them in Photoshop. This is certainly much more difficult and time consuming, not to mention lower quality than the film route.

    If all else fails, how about shooting with a three-strip camera rig with B&W IR film, then somehow combining the images?
     
  18. nworth

    nworth Subscriber

    Messages:
    2,192
    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2005
    Location:
    Los Alamos,
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I looked on the Kodak web site, and the only IR aerial color film currently listed is Aerochrome 1443, and that only in long 9-1/2 inch rolls. http://www.kodak.com/eknec/documents/7b/0900688a802b097b/EN_ti2562.pdf
     
  19. htmlguru4242

    htmlguru4242 Member

    Messages:
    973
    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2005
    Location:
    Sandy Hook,
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Aerochrome III is also listed as 1443.