8x10 processing question

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by mark, Nov 18, 2006.

  1. mark

    mark Member

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    I process 2 8x10 negs in a unicolor drum that I roll around on the floor. I use the same set up for four 5x7 negatives. I use 500ml og pyrocat-hd at 2:2:100. I have not had any issues with the 5x7 negs as long as I get the dev in really fast and knock it over right away. With the 8x10 I am getting lines of different densities. I do nothing differently.

    Why?
     
  2. David A. Goldfarb

    David A. Goldfarb Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Is it the same type of film? Try a presoak, if you don't already use one.
     
  3. Tony D

    Tony D Member

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    I think the lines are caused by the ribs of the tube causing the developer to pool in those areas.
     
  4. mark

    mark Member

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    I do presoak. It is also the same film Adox(efke PL)100

    It can't be the ribs because the emulsion is facing into the tube, not the wall. Is it the amount of developer?
     
  5. Donald Miller

    Donald Miller Member

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    Is the increased density on the emuilsion or the back side? If I don't presoak enough (five minutes with vigorous agitation) I have problems getting the antihalation layer off the film.

    When this has shown up for me, it renders as increased density.
     
  6. Alex Hawley

    Alex Hawley Member

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    Don, that's interesting. I always pre-soak for five minutes, but I have never agitated during pre-soak. Maybe I should be. Have not seen a problem but maybe I have one I haven't seen. I have been using a Unicolor drum for extreme minimal agitaiton. One sheet 8x10 or two 4x5s at a time. The water always comes out blue. Got me wondering though.
     
  7. Konical

    Konical Subscriber

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    Good Evening,

    Like Alex, I can't recall ever having difficulty getting rid of the anti-halation backing. I normally use just a two-minute pre-soak; the only agitation is the normal rotation of the drum on the motor drive. It seems worth remembering, too, that the film is in the various chemicals for a time far exceeding the usual pre-soak time. Removal of any anti-halation coating presumably continues in those also, should the water pre-soak not finish the job. In actuality, I don't see any trace of the backing when I dump the developer; whatever the color of the anti-halation backing, it seems to come out very thoroughly with just a couple of minutes in water. (I have not, however, drum-processed any but Kodak and Ilford films.)

    Konical
     
  8. mark

    mark Member

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    It is not anti halation. Definately on the emulsion side. I just looked at them again it is like waves of density, or peaks and valleys. It builds up and goes down, builds up and goes down.
     
  9. Donald Miller

    Donald Miller Member

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    Maybe it's my water here in Phoenix (it has enough mineral that I walk on it). But I have had problems with removal of the AH layer. It does not show up as color but rather as increased density that is quite apparently on the base side. five minutes with rolling agitation in the presoak and vigourous ten second shaking at 1 1/2, 3 and 4 1/2 minutes takes care of the problem...any less and I will have problems.
     
  10. Donald Miller

    Donald Miller Member

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    Has to be the agitation regimen coupled with ribs in the drum. I venture that it is due to surge effects.
     
  11. glbeas

    glbeas Member

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    Are you extremely consistant with how far you roll the drum back and forth? If so that has the possibilty of making uneven density from stopping at the same point all the time, especially if the roll is short. A nice long roll that stops at random points of the drum might help some.
     
  12. User Removed

    User Removed Guest

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    You know it's funny I just found this thread.

    I've had the EXACT same problems you are having using those drums. I have the unicolor plastic tubes with the one fill end, and the other the dump end. The tube is nearly perfectly smooth on the inside. I use the tubes on the rotor base however, so the agitation is always consistant. I presoak about 5 minutes for each film.

    The weird thing is, the developer rotates around the film one directions...but the streaking is always the complete opposite dirrection on the film!!!

    I processed over 300 sheets of JandC Pro 100 in Pyrocat-HD 2-2-100 in those unicolor drums on the unicolor base from my Iceland trip, and did not get any streaking. However, I did a few negatives this weekend and the streaking is AWFUL! I really do not understand it. Same film, same developer, same EVERYTHING...just different subject matter images.

    Someone suggested that you use a piece of nylon screening on the inside of the tube to slide it in and out. I tried this, and the streaking still happens.

    I've tried everything from changing presoak time, developer dilution, temp, development time...but the streaking is still completely random.

    I'm sorry I cannot provide an answer for you, as I am seaching for one myself. I'm just going to go back to using trays again for the time being, but using those tubes is great if you do not have a dark/wet enviroment.
     
  13. User Removed

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    Mark,

    Anyway you could scan a print made from one of the negatives, or scan the actual negative?

    I'm going to scan one of my prints from the streaky unicolor negatives and will post it here tomorrow. We can compare how they look.

    Which direction are the streaks going?
     
  14. MattKing

    MattKing Subscriber

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    Ryan:

    Have you tried flipping the tube around (so that the rotation is effectively reversed) during the development?

    I only process paper using the tubes, but I do that reversal flip every 30 seconds.

    Matt
     
  15. doughowk

    doughowk Subscriber

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    There was a post on the Mamut Photo Forum about density banding for Efke 100. I have had the same problem with Efke (7X17 format); and am wondering if they've had a quality control problem. I'm also using J&C 400, and process in tubes on a Uniroller as with the Efke, but have no problems.
     
  16. photomc

    photomc Member

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    wish I could offer something other than what has been suggested. I process 4x5,5x7 and 8x10 in a Beseler drum (while not the same thing is very much the same process). They are all processed in a 8x10 drum, on a drum motor (Unicolor - auto reverse). While I have had other problems, not this one....wonder if it is something with the films.

    process is 250ml of water for pre-soak, 250-300 ml of Pyrocat 2+2+100 for x minutes, 250ml of water stop for 1 min, then 250 ml of fix (Ilford rapid fix) for 4 mins. Drain, pop the top and wash (fill, soak and dump x times). No sign of any streaking. I know Lee uses Unicolor drums for his negatives and have not heard of any problems (though he is not using Efke now). Will continue to watch this thread...most interesting.
     
  17. User Removed

    User Removed Guest

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    My process is EXACTLY the same with the exact same amount of chemestry. I'm using the same dilution, same water stop, same Ilford fix and everything else. I have a few different drums, some are Beseler, some Ilfochrome, some Unicolor, however...I compared them and they are all exactly the same thing.

    I'm going to post a scan of a recent image that was destroyed by streaking.
     
  18. User Removed

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    Here is a scan from a recent negative I developed that showed the streaking. As you can see,I have streaks that go horizonally, and then a huge square area of density change that goes vertically on the left side. The sheet of film was placed in the tube in a horizontal position, and rotated with the developer inside in the horizontal position, so the streaks that go horizontally do not make sense because the developer does not flow in that way.

    I checked my tubes with a piece of film, and the film lays smoot and flat on the inside. The streaks are clearly on the emution side, not the base side. The film was not fogged or exposed to light, so that is not the cause for the uneveness in the development. Nor is it the paper, as you can see them on the negative. (EDIT- Do not confuse the texture of the paper with the streaking bans)

    http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y133/RyanMcIntoshPhotography/Developmentstreaks.jpg

    Please post images of your problems as well, so we can compare the two.
     
  19. don sigl

    don sigl Member

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    I think it has something to do with your agitation process. You can get very good consistancy with a cheap unicolor motor base (available on ebay) and a gadget used in the woodworking industry to vary router speeds. http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/orderstatus/html/smarthtml/pages/speedcon.html. I just plug the unicolor base into the speed controller and slow the rotation down. Its very consistant and much more economical than an a jobo
     
  20. jgjbowen

    jgjbowen Member

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    Ryan,

    Have you considered the possibility that your problems could be a quality control issue with the film? It seems very odd that your process would work like a charm for 300 negatives and then suddenly you get lots of streaking in your negatives. One of your variables would be the film. I would suggest trying a sheet developed in a tray and trying a sheet of different film with your tubes. I know folks love to bash Kodak on these forums, but I've never experienced a QC problem with Kodak products.

    Good luck in your quest to solve this issue. Please keep us posted of your findings.

    Best,