A few questions re Fuji E6 chems...

Discussion in 'Color: Film, Paper, and Chemistry' started by Denis P., Nov 13, 2009.

  1. Denis P.

    Denis P. Member

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    So, I purchased a couple of Fuji E6 5-liter kits ("Chrome 6x") - see attached pic.

    I'll be mixing my first batch soon, but I'm still in doubt regarding a few things, namely:

    Longevity:
    The papers state the longevity of the mixed solution in various storage situations (half-full, tightly capped, etc...), but I still don't know how long the kit can last in its original factory package (unopened concentrates). I think I read somewhere that unopened it would last some 18 months... Possible?

    Mixing smaller quantities:
    I don't need full 5 liters of mixed chems... It would go bad too soon - besides, handling multiple (smaller) containers will be a problem. So, I'll probably be using a couple 300ml batches, until I get familiar with the process, and then perhaps 1 liter batches for 2 or 3 larger runs (batches of 10-16 4x5 chromes in Jobo 2840 drum, plus some medium format films).
    I think the best way would be to mix smaller batches as needed, and transfer the remaining concentrates into smaller containers, to prolong the life of concentrate... and add some marbles to displace air from the smaller bottles with the concentrates.

    Reusing solution:
    Is it OK to reuse the diluted chems (solutions) immediately for a second run? I.e. preparing 1 liter solutions for all 6 chems, using it for one run (let's say 14 sheets of Velvia 4x5), and then a couple of hours later (or next day, when the drums and the reels have thoroughly dried) reusing those same diluted chems (solutions) for another run of another 14 sheets of 4x5 Velvia? I think I don't need to extend the times, since the data sheet states something like 118 4x5 sheets witout the need for extending the developing times.

    I'll be using Jobo CPA2 and smaller and larger Jobo drums...

    Thanks for any info...
     

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    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 13, 2009
  2. DanielStone

    DanielStone Member

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    I'm interested in this as well, with Jobo development too.

    Does the constant motion in the Jobo cause development-failure faster, due to more air contact?

    btw denis, how much did you pay for your 5L kit? I've heard of people using developer one-shot(not sure as to 1st dev or color, or both), then re-using the P-B, Bleach, Fix and stabilizer/final wash just like c-41 for consistency.

    -Dan
     
  3. kompressor

    kompressor Member

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    Datasheet

    I only use Kodak E6-kits. With the Kodak kit there is included a verey detailed leaflet on use/storage/dillutioning for half, 1, 2, 3,4 and 5 litre. How much film u can process. The quality of the slides processed is just fantastic! Never seen any pro lab do it better than what i gain self in my own small lab.
     
  4. DanielStone

    DanielStone Member

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    ya, thats the main reason for me wanting to do it myself. total control over the processing. besides, night photography ain't my thing, so I can shoot during the day, and process at night :smile:.

    why the kodak stuff btw?
     
  5. kompressor

    kompressor Member

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    They invented the stuff.

    The Kodak Chemistry made by Champion, gives me the results i want. It last for a long time without using more than a burst protectan gas. Its a big damn leaflet following every box of chemistry. With that leaflet you can fine tune your own process. Its a damn E6-high school in that folded paper manual. How to colour correct, how to fail check, how to obtain lesser saturation etc.

    It is just what i want to use. Its avaible by mailorder over the night so i dont have to stock up more tha a kit at a time.

    And its even a rumour that in ten of the boxes made this year its a golden Willy Wonka ticket that will take you and your family to Rochester and let you spend a whole weekend in all of Kodaks estates and buildings under guidance of Photo Engineer.
     
  6. JLP

    JLP Subscriber

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    Now i need to stock a few more boxes. Good stuff Yellow Father.
     
  7. DanielStone

    DanielStone Member

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    should we king PE the "Great Yellow Father" :surprised:?

    he's very helpful, no; extremely helpful!!!!

    thanks PE!

    now, if my family really gave a damn about my photography. I mean, they support me(well, sometimes). But they really have no interest in the process. So I could have some fellow classmates come if I won :D. if only.

    -Dan
     
  8. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    Kodak invented E6 and bore the burden of R&D. Fuji uses it free and clear as there were no patentable items in the process. Kodak chemistry is therefore more expensive than Fuji-Hunt. Many people ignore this and go for the less expensive stuff but any proprietary items are minor and come from Kodak which is in the forefront of R&D yet.

    PE
     
  9. JLP

    JLP Subscriber

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    PE would at most be one of the son's of the Great Yellow Father but that is not bad either :smile:
    Quality unequaled and as far as i know, Fuji's 5L kit is not available in the US.
     
  10. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    The Fuji kit is quite good and roughly equivalent to the Kodak Kit AFAIK. Others that I hear of seem to have problems. I cannot comment.

    Use what works.

    PE
     
  11. DanielStone

    DanielStone Member

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    well, thankfully, I'm not having to shell out clams for the chems. since I develop at a photo center, they purchase the chems. I'm just trying to help them get the least expensive, yet QUALITY chemistry available. I don't want to put my precious films through sub-par chems.

    They order chems for RA-4 from a local mom/pop camera store. in addition to 30" Fuji CA roll paper for their chromira.

    I'm one of the youngest people there, mostly older people who 'want to get back into photography'. Nothing wrong with that. Its funny though because many of them ask me why I bother with the "big, heavy cameras". But then I show them some prints, and they see why. I guess some have become believers, cause there are a few that have returned to film after I've shown them how to develop/ basic print. They usually just go to Costco for their dev/printing. One guy got a Canon 5dII, but after his wife saw the c/c statement, she got pissed. He still has it, but for some reason, he held on to his eos-1n. he now shoots more ektar 100 than I'd like to say here :smile:. easily 50 rolls/month. he just can't get enough :smile:. he uses Costco though. he's in his early 60s.

    he is pretty well off financially, and he now questions why he bought into the "megapixel myth". he doesn't print bigger than 8x10/12, and he does some really nice stuff! using some t/s lenses, some of his landscapes are very impressive. he and his wife are on the road 30 weeks/year living in an rv-bus. that's how I want to retire :smile:. Photographing God's great creation! As long as the contrails don't get in the shot :D.

    -Dan
     
  12. kristopher_lawrence

    kristopher_lawrence Member

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    If it can help, I just processed 4 rolls of 120 Astia slide film trough 500ml of solution. I extend the 1st developer of 30 sec. and the bleach from 6 to 10 minutes.

    The results are really good.

    Not bad, as it gives you about 40 rolls per kit!

    Once you get used in maintaining the right temp, it gets as easy as processing b&w, just a tad longer. Now that I used more than half the capacity of my first chemistry kit I can't believe I waited so long before processing my own color.

    best,

    Kris
     
  13. DanielStone

    DanielStone Member

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    thanks Kris,

    I like being able to support a company that I used to work for. They're great people, and I'd hate to have to break a business relationship with them, but I need to save money, and even $5/roll stretches my budget right now. I'll finally be able to apply for the FAFSA this next term, since my dad finally got his taxes done for '08.

    my sis' needs FAFSA too. she's in San Luis Obispo, I'm at a local comm. college, so my fees are smaller. But money saved is money earned :smile:.

    thanks

    Dan

    btw.... are you using a jobo?
     
  14. DanielStone

    DanielStone Member

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    and getting TOTAL control over the processing part lets me fine tune things to how I like them.
     
  15. DanielStone

    DanielStone Member

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    is this in fuji or kodak chems? why the extension of 30 sec? just for fuji film?
     
  16. Denis P.

    Denis P. Member

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    Looks like I'll have to start another thread - this one has gone completely astray, and has absolutely nothing to do either with the title or my original questions :sad:
     
  17. kristopher_lawrence

    kristopher_lawrence Member

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    Kodak Chemistry.

    The time extension if for any E-6 film, the process is standard.

    I use a paterson tank with water bath and color thermometer.


     
  18. DanielStone

    DanielStone Member

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    sorry about that Denis. wasn't my intention.

    so, lets re-start with YOUR original question:

     
  19. Denis P.

    Denis P. Member

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    Not a big deal, Daniel.... Obviously not much info about this Fuji E6 kit. I've heard about 3-bath Fuji kit, but not about this one (6+1 bath, as shown in my pic in the first post).

    Looks like I'm on my own. Will try to digest what has been written already on other kits, so hopefully will be able to do something with the one I have :smile:

    I'll post my results (if any).

    Denis
     
  20. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    The original kit has 3 perishable parts.

    1. First developer
    2. Color Developer
    3. Reversal bath.

    They are packed under nitrogen, so once you open them to the air, their 1 - 3 year shelf life goes away. That unopened shelf life depends on date of manufacture and how it was kept getting to you (hot, cold etc).

    A one part developer is not as stable as a 2 part developer. Therefore the First Developer is less stable than the Color Developer which is usually 3 parts. The First Developer should be light brown to clear.

    The Color Developer, if in 3 parts, only goes bad if the small bottle (usually B) turns brown or black. If amber to clear it is fine.

    The reversal bath gives no indication that it is bad, other than giving bad results.

    All liquid kits can be mixed up in small quantities. Powder kits cannot. After opening, liquid kits usually last as concentrates for about 6 months or less. The mixed working solutions will last about 6 weeks in full bottles.

    PE
     
  21. Denis P.

    Denis P. Member

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    Thanks, Ron... Helpful and knowledgeable as always :smile:
    Denis
     
  22. Denis P.

    Denis P. Member

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    And the results...

    OK, I developed two rounds yesterday, reusing the chemistry for the second round. I used the Fuji 6x kit.

    In the first round I developed two 4x5 sheets of Velvia 100 (outdated in Dec. 2008), in Jobo 2523 drum on a Jobo CPA2, "by the book", i.e. (approx. 300 ml for all chemicals, this Jobo drum calls for 270 ml):

    1) Warm-up (drum with no liquid inside, rolling on the processor) = 5:00
    2) First developer = 6:45 (I added 15 seconds for Fuji film, as I read somewhere)
    3) Rinse = 3:00 (4 exchanges of water)
    4) Reversal bath = 2:00
    5) Color developer = 4:00
    6) Pre-bleach = 2:00
    7) Bleach = 6:00
    8) Fixer = 4:00
    9) Wash = 6:00 (approx. 8-9 exchanges of water on the processor, 300 ml each)
    10) Final rinse = 1:00

    Step #10 was done off the processor, film removed from the tank and dipped into final rinse in a separate dish...

    The results are OK, from what I can say (never did any cromes before, let alone large format). The shots were rather difficult, backlit yard full of leaves, with the Sun in the frame, coming through the tree branches. Not an easy shot to meter under any circumstances... and perhaps not a good shot for the first E6 test run :smile:

    Anyway, I wanted to see whether I can reuse the same chemistry, so immediately after these two 4x5 films were done, I dried the tank and did it all again with one roll of medium format Ektachrome 100 - expired in 2001 :smile:
    Unfortunately, I forgot about that when exposing this roll - I perhaps should have exposed it at EI80 or even 50, but I used 100 ASA - nominal value... I forgot about it being long expired...

    Anyway, I extended the times for the second run by half a minute (everything except rinses). The roll came out a bit too dense, I think. Again, I'm no expert for chromes, but when I showed the results today to a friend who used to run a lab, he said they look quite OK. Maybe a little dense, but still OK.

    So, I guess the times are OK - when doing the second run with the same chemicals, it's OK to add 30 seconds. You just need to take into account the quantity of film you're doing.

    As for longevity, I prepared 500ml of solutions - and topped the original concentrate bottles with lighter gas... We don't have Protectan spray here, and I've read that lighter gas will do in a pinch :smile:
    I wish I could attach a nice scan, but my scanning skills suck big time. I manage with B&W somehow, but color... no way...

    Denis