A question about replenished XTOL

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by Smudger, Sep 27, 2010.

  1. Smudger

    Smudger Member

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    After reading the discussion on the merits of replenishment,I have been running some tests,and results are proving very satisfactory so far.
    Starting with 1.8litres,I am four films into the seasoning stage,figuring that one more roll should be sufficient,before I begin to replenish.
    But,naturally,the level of solution drops with each roll developed.
    So,should I top up to the original level,and then start adding 70ml after film five,or just wear the reduced level in the meantime?
     
  2. Sirius Glass

    Sirius Glass Subscriber

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    Replenish after each roll of film for 135-36 or 120 or four 4x5 sheets [4*80 square inches]. Pour out about 300ml from the 1.8 liters. Then measure 4*70ml = 280ml and pour into the 1.8 liter bottle, then top off with the remainder of the 300ml so that you are back to 1.8 liters. Discard the remainder.

    After that measure out the 70ml before you start. Develop the film, pour the 70ml into the 1.8 liter bottle and top off with the developer in the tank. Dump any excess.

    I am not surprised that the instructions are confusing. First is says develop the first five at one time, and later the instructions blow past replenishment as though each printed word cost money.

    Any other questions? As away!

    Enjoy!

    Steve
     
  3. markbarendt

    markbarendt Subscriber

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    1.8 liters could do about 25 rolls "one shot", if I did the math properly.

    I'd say you will be closer to 10 rolls before you start doing full replenishment each time.

    During the seasoning stage just "top up" the bottle.
     
  4. Sirius Glass

    Sirius Glass Subscriber

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    That is nice if it works for you, but that is not what the Kodak XTOL instructions say about replenishment. At least the first time follow the instructions; later if you want you can replenish with orange juice and coffee, but then you are on your own. :tongue:
     
  5. jnanian

    jnanian Advertiser Advertiser

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    ive used replenished systems for 25 years on and off.
    it really isn't an exact science, although it may seem to be ...
    in the days that i replenished dk50 and used it in a deep tank for sheet film
    we didn't really have a season-period instead we just left the tank with some old developer in it
    which worked just fine "to take the edge off"
    i never seasoned xtol when i used it, but i did replenish it ( as well as tmaxrs, and sprint, and caffienol C )
    exact-everything really isn't *that* critical ...

    with regards to your xtol ...

    i just downloaded the documentation for xtol developer ( attached )
    maybe i am looking at the wrong information,
    but the chart on page 2 suggests that
    the FULL package of developer is seasoned ( developing time is compensated by 15% )
    after 5 rolls of film. seeing you are using less than 1/2 the 5L as your un-dilute, stock solution
    your season-period might be more like 2 rolls, not 5 ... ( if you do it by the book )
    i am guessing that now, you can just top off the 1.8L and begin to replenish.
    (and top off the developer after each time you use it)

    i don't really think it is going to make too much difference
    in the grand scheme of things if you seasoned the developer with
    an extra roll or two, seeing your can see your results and they look good to you ...


    have fun

    john
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 29, 2010
  6. markbarendt

    markbarendt Subscriber

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    It is what worked for me and developing is highly subjective. Kodak and Ilford both essentially say the given directions are just starting points.

    You will never learn where the limits unless you push them a bit.
     
  7. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    The problem is math isn't the whole picture, maths is :D

    2 litres of Xtol would process 8 sheets of 5x4 or 4 rolls of 120 for many of us used one shot, undiluted. Not very economic. That's using an older Jobo tank, and Paterson tanks inversion agitation.

    Like John says replenishment doesn't need to be so strict, I used a 2.5 litre bottle and replenished every 5-10 films approx, adding the replenisher (fresh Xtol) first as there's a need to bleed some old dev off.

    You're right that the developer becomes reasonably seasoned by around 10 films, but you start to see the benefits aound the 5 films mark with a small working stock solution.

    Ian
     
  8. markbarendt

    markbarendt Subscriber

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    Well maybe maths "are". :tongue:

    I'm on your side man. That's the thought I'm trying to spit out.
     
  9. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    Sorry Mark, should have added your name alongside John's, I was agreeing with you :D

    There's too many misapprehensions about how difficult replenishment is, particularly as it's one of the easier techniques around. There's also too many false statements about Xtol's poor keeping qualities, the packaging issue was solved well over 20 years ago.

    Ian