A Windisch surprise

Discussion in 'Book, Magazine, Gallery Reviews, Shows & Contests' started by Ian Grant, Oct 7, 2013.

  1. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

    Messages:
    18,032
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2004
    Location:
    West Midland
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Yesterday at a Camera fair I picked up a copy of Hans Windisch's famous book, an English copy of "DIE NEUE PHOTO.SCHULE, Die Technik"

    windisch_a.jpg This is the cover of my 1944 German language version, I have a 1938 English language copy as well, What made yesterdays purchase interesting was it was a 1956 version and refered to Ilford Phenidone developers and also pointed out that Kodak had copied one of Windisch's developers for D25.

    So my latest Windisch book is called "The Manual of Modern Photography - Technique" and it's well written.

    Ian
     
  2. Shawn Dougherty

    Shawn Dougherty Member

    Messages:
    4,184
    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2004
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Shooter:
    4x5 Format
    Ian,
    In my reading on D23 diluted 1+3 (which I have been using with 4x5 lately) I came across a few people stating that D23 at that dilution is similar to a Windisch developer. I wonder if you know which one and what the actual formula is?
    Thanks!
    Shawn
     
  3. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

    Messages:
    18,032
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2004
    Location:
    West Midland
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Shawn, Windisch claims that D25 is derived from his W665 formula but without the Ortho-phenylene diamine.

    W665

    [TABLE="width: 500"]

    Sodium Sulphite (anhyd)

    90g


    Ortho-phenylene diamine

    12g


    Metol

    12g


    Sodium metabisulphite

    10g


    Water to

    1 litre

    [/TABLE]


    Windisch's own developer similar to D25 is:

    W22

    [TABLE="width: 500"]

    Sodium Sulphite (anhyd)

    65g

    93g


    Metol

    8g

    11.4g


    Sodium Metabisulphite

    7g

    10g


    Water to

    700ml

    1 litre

    [/TABLE]

    Windisch published W22 to make 700ml of developer, I've added the figures to make 1 litre.


    This one is also listed:

    Metol Sulphite developer


    [TABLE="width: 500"]

    Sodium Sulphite (anhyd)

    50g


    Metol

    2.5g


    Water to

    1 litre

    [/TABLE]

    It pre-dates the Kodak D23 formula. It's in both my earlier copies of "DIE NEUE PHOTO.SCHULE, Die Technik"

    Ian
     
  4. Shawn Dougherty

    Shawn Dougherty Member

    Messages:
    4,184
    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2004
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Shooter:
    4x5 Format
    Thank you, Ian. That 3rd one is pretty close to diluted D23. Somewhere between 1+2 and 1+3, though a bit heavy on the Sodium Sulphite. Interesting that it is in your 1938 copy as well. Thanks again for posting these.
     
  5. MDR

    MDR Member

    Messages:
    1,411
    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2006
    Location:
    Austria
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Ian I don't know when D23 was introduced but after WWII most German Patents were voided as War reparation and many US companies benefited quiet a lot from these reparations as did the US economy.
     
  6. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

    Messages:
    18,032
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2004
    Location:
    West Midland
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    D23 & D25 were introduced in a Kodak Research document by Henn & Crabtree in 1944.

    Ian
     
  7. MDR

    MDR Member

    Messages:
    1,411
    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2006
    Location:
    Austria
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Thank you. Again in Wartime the enemies copyright didn't really count. And as you very well know Kodak wasn't as big an innovator as we are led to believe. Like any Big company they mostly bought innovation (T-grain etc... are an exception to the rule).
     
  8. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

    Messages:
    18,032
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2004
    Location:
    West Midland
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Kodak lagged way behind in terms of their B&W developers and films, they only caught up and went past their competitors in the 1980's. D76 and some other well known Kodak developers evolved from the Wellington & Ward buffered borax developer.

    Ian
     
  9. MDR

    MDR Member

    Messages:
    1,411
    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2006
    Location:
    Austria
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Yet we are led to believe that Kodak was the great innovator without whom modern film photography would not exist :smile:
     
  10. AgX

    AgX Member

    Messages:
    11,904
    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2007
    Location:
    Germany
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Even patents of so-called allies were voided.
     
  11. MDR

    MDR Member

    Messages:
    1,411
    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2006
    Location:
    Austria
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    AGX you are of course right but they called it war reparation when they voided German and Austrian patents whereas they called it paying back war debts when they more or less took/stole english, french etc... inventions. It's all in the wording. my favourite example is the Bell X2 the first supersonic plane in reality it was a british invention but the British had to hand over the construction plans to the americans. The first time Europe stood up to the US demands was the Concorde France and the UK denied the US wish to receive the construction plans and the rest is as they say is History or more precisely the Concorde and Tupolev are still the only Supersonic Passenger Transport planes. :smile: