Accordian bottles?

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by PeteZ8, Jun 17, 2009.

  1. PeteZ8

    PeteZ8 Member

    Messages:
    410
    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2008
    Location:
    Newtown, PA
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    Anyone have a good source for air free (collapsable) storage bottles? I can't seem to find them anywhere perhaps I'm just using the wrong keywords?

    Pete
     
  2. Alex Bishop-Thorpe

    Alex Bishop-Thorpe Member

    Messages:
    1,455
    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2006
    Location:
    Adelaide, So
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I was recommended against using them in my early days (But for the life of me I dont remember what the reasoning actually was), but I know freestyle photo stock them, under the Air-Evac brand. Where in the world are you located?
     
  3. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

    Messages:
    18,091
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2004
    Location:
    West Midland
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    You could have mine for free but they are in the UK, and I'm in Turkey :D

    I really don't recommend them, mine (Jobo type) came with a job lot of darkroom gear I bought in 2000, I can't see any particular benefits over regular bottles for the solutions I store.

    Ian
     
  4. Sirius Glass

    Sirius Glass Subscriber

    Messages:
    20,648
    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2007
    Location:
    Southern California
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    FreeStyle has them. They also are a sponsor here.

    Steve
     
  5. PeteZ8

    PeteZ8 Member

    Messages:
    410
    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2008
    Location:
    Newtown, PA
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    Thanks for all the links.

    I don't use the darkroom frequently and I wanted some for storing paper developer and possibly C-41 chemicals to try and extend the life a little.

    Since posting this thread I also found this company: http://www.2spi.com/catalog/photo/air-evac.shtml Does anyone have experience buying from them? Nothing against the forum sponsor but they are half the price from 2spi and when ordering a half dozen or so the difference adds up quick.
     
  6. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

    Messages:
    18,091
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2004
    Location:
    West Midland
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    C41 chemistry has a very limited life once made up, so it's best to process in batches.

    At those prices just take a chance :D

    Ian
     
  7. PeteZ8

    PeteZ8 Member

    Messages:
    410
    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2008
    Location:
    Newtown, PA
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    Thanks I'll add them to the list.

    The only reason I've heard against using the collapsable bottles is they don't clean out as well. I have no idea how true that is, I would imagine some hot water and agitation would get it clean enough if the tank is not being reused for a different chemical (which I would never do anyway).

    Edit: I'm in Central NJ, USA. I thought it was in my profile I'll update thanks!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 17, 2009
  8. PeteZ8

    PeteZ8 Member

    Messages:
    410
    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2008
    Location:
    Newtown, PA
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    Just tried to cash out at SPI, $50 minimum order :sad:

    I don't need that many.

    Thanks for all the replies! I'll check out Freestyle.
     
  9. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

    Messages:
    18,091
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2004
    Location:
    West Midland
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    You need to mark them very well, fixer doesn't wash out very well as you get plating on the sides and sulphurising. My problem was the tops are always very good and didn't seal properly.

    Ian
     
  10. BetterSense

    BetterSense Member

    Messages:
    3,126
    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2008
    Location:
    North Caroli
    Shooter:
    35mm
    I thought they seemed like a good idea until I saw that they were made out of thin HDPE. I think glass would be better, even with the extra air space. Just my opinion. Also you can squeeze PET bottles to get pretty much all the air out of them, but then they don't stand up very well.
     
  11. Lowell Huff

    Lowell Huff Inactive

    Messages:
    170
    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2003
    Location:
    Los Angeles,
    Shooter:
    35mm
    They are fun to play with, not any more effective than other bottles at storing chemistry.
     
  12. gainer

    gainer Subscriber

    Messages:
    3,725
    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2002
    I have one somewhere. There's a limit as to how far they can be collapsed. Mine kept leaking. I thought of joining it with a tin flute to make a sort of bagpipe, but it leaked too bad for that. I'd rather use marbles.
     
  13. RH Designs

    RH Designs Advertiser Advertiser

    Messages:
    657
    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2003
    Location:
    Yorkshire Da
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I used to have a few, I ended up throwing them away years ago. They are porous (or at least mine were) so over time they expanded and let air in, and has been said above they were very difficult to keep clean. I now use 500ml beer and and 1l wine bottles with a Vacuvin Wine Saver which works very well. I get to drink the contents first as well, which is a bonus!
     
  14. Sponsored Ad
  15. Ken N

    Ken N Member

    Messages:
    382
    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2004
    Location:
    Creston and
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Several years ago I was researching bottles for storage and discovered that for photographic chemicals about the most stable option was just plain 2L pop bottles. I remove the labels, clean them thouroughly, place my own gaudy hazmat labels all over them and just use them. It's easy to squeeze the air out.

    I replace mine about every year because when squeezing them, wrinkles can eventually spring leaks. My bottles ALWAYS sit in empty processing trays in case (when) one decides to leak.
     
  16. PeteZ8

    PeteZ8 Member

    Messages:
    410
    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2008
    Location:
    Newtown, PA
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    Thanks for all the replies.

    I'll skip on them for now, seems they can cause more problems than they solve. Seemed like a great idea at the time :smile:
    Pete
     
  17. fschifano

    fschifano Member

    Messages:
    3,216
    Joined:
    May 12, 2003
    Location:
    Valley Strea
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Smart move 'cause those accordion bottles are really crap. The soda pop bottles seem to be the best compromise of cost and effectiveness. I use 1L and smaller sizes for developers. They're pretty much air tight, and plenty good enough for the amount of time a developer can be stored. Stuff like D-76 can start to go bad after 6 months even in completely full and perfectly stoppered glass bottles. I get the same thing from a 1L soda bottle so go figure.
     
  18. dougjgreen

    dougjgreen Member

    Messages:
    268
    Joined:
    May 7, 2009
    Location:
    San Diego, C
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    It's true, they are a huge pain in the rear to clean. I stopped using them for that reason.
     
  19. jim appleyard

    jim appleyard Member

    Messages:
    2,130
    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I used to use these because I read somehwere they they were good; you could squeeze the air out of them and your chems would last longer. While you can squeeze the air out of them, the plastic that they are made of breathes and lets air in that way. If you use them for the developer (the chem that readily oxidizes anyway) , they will eventually show black crud on the inside. This is oxydized developer.

    Besides the "joints" wear out and then leak.

    I like to use glass. Yes, it can break, but glass never wears out and is not air permeable.
     
  20. PeteZ8

    PeteZ8 Member

    Messages:
    410
    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2008
    Location:
    Newtown, PA
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    Since this thread is still getting some attention, I also have welding equipment and as such, stocks of various gasses.

    How about a noble gas in the bottle? Argon perhaps (pure argon, not the CO2/argon mix for MIG)? It's heavier than air and will displace it handily. Not that I would likely go that far but for discussion purposes it's an interesting thought. Unless I find myself with more time on my hands (in this economy, I might!), I really do very little darkroom printing and I would hate to waste chemistry. I may stockpile a bunch of film then do 30-40 prints, then not get to the darkroom for a month or more.
     
  21. AshenLight

    AshenLight Member

    Messages:
    156
    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2007
    Location:
    Northeastern
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I used them until I collapsed one down to just above the fluid level then gently (and I do mean gently) pressed down to remove the air in the headspace. The face full of TF-4 I got made the switch to amber glass bottles easy...

    Ash
     
  22. Bob F.

    Bob F. Member

    Messages:
    3,984
    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2004
    Location:
    London
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I use argon and fizzy-pop bottles. As said above they make good storage for developers - I have had ID-11 stock in a full pop bottle for 14 months (I forgot about it!) with no detectable colour change or loss of effectiveness.

    Threw my accordion bottles out years ago - total rubbish for all the reasons stated above...
     
  23. RJS

    RJS Member

    Messages:
    246
    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Location:
    Southern Cal
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    The accordion bottles looked like a great idea but apparently he plastic allows air in, the lids don't seal well so I have given up using them. If made of the right, impermeable plastic with a really good lid, they would be great. However. . .
     
  24. Larry.Manuel

    Larry.Manuel Member

    Messages:
    291
    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2005
    Location:
    Kuiper Belt
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    Perhaps you could re-use a bag-in-box wine dispensing system. The bags have a layer of metal foil, to reduce gas diffusion through the membrane.
     
  25. PeteZ8

    PeteZ8 Member

    Messages:
    410
    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2008
    Location:
    Newtown, PA
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    Interesting Larry! I love repurposing things, not only is it the most efficient form of recycling in the world, but it's cheap!

    The downside is until they come out with beer-in-a-box, I'll never get my hands on a wine box! :wink:
     
  26. lorirfrommontana

    lorirfrommontana Member

    Messages:
    424
    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2008
    Location:
    Montana
    Shooter:
    35mm
    I purchased some accordion bottles before I found this group. The large ones are very awkward and the ones I got lids don't seal well. The smaller ones I got had better lids and are working good right now. I was wondering if all the chems have to be in brown bottles or if it is okay to put some in clear or green wine bottles? Right now I have my indicator stop in a water bottle because I was out of brown bottles? Is this okay? My chems are all in my darkroom which is in the basement and usually dark. Just wondering!
    Lori