Acros 100 roll came completely blank - Possible C-41 development?

Discussion in 'Exposure Discussion' started by mindthemix, Oct 19, 2012.

  1. mindthemix

    mindthemix Member

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    I already asked the lab if they developed in C-41 by mistake.

    The entire roll came completely blank.
    DSCF1929.JPG DSCF1931.JPG

    There's no issue with the camera and all the previous rolls (this is my first Acros) came without any problems.

    Are these images sign that the lab did something wrong?

    Thanks for all your help!
     
  2. FritsM

    FritsM Member

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    Something like that, all the silver has been bleach-fixed away. There are no edge markings either, so it's not blank from non-exposure.
    But why is the base so orange? Is that normal for Acros? I've never used it.

    That control number on the end should tell the lab which processor was used, and when. I think they should fess up.
     
  3. mindthemix

    mindthemix Member

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    Thanks for the prompt reply!
    I'm new to film and this is my first Acros, the whole rolls is that color. I'll post the answer from the lab.
     
  4. summicron1

    summicron1 Subscriber

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    what frits said -- no edge numbers mean it was improperly developed -- who did you take it to? Acros is B/W film and needs to be processed in b/w chemicals, NOT color film chemicals -- my guess: Some kid who doesn't know there's a difference ran it through the c-41 machine, which may explain the orange color, or may not. I mean, b.w film comes out clear or slightly gray/purple, not orange.

    almost wonder if they slipped you a blank/bad roll of old color film back.

    There IS b/w film that is processed in c-41 -- kodak makes some, and ilford's xp2, and some labs even wonder "how do I process this" and I have to carefully point to the "process c-41" on the roll. The reverse mistake is also very possible.

    Find a good custom lab that knows, or send your film to Blue Moon in Seattle, or even bester, learn to do your own. It is insanely easy.
     
  5. FritsM

    FritsM Member

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    I wouldn't be surprised if they did. The lab is likely trying to cover up their mistake. And for most unknowing customers that may work just fine. But they don't know you have a forum of enthusiasts and experts behind you.

    I doubt Acros has an orange base, even when processed in whatever. C41 or E6 cannot tint the base or emulsion like that. A heavy orange base would make it challenging to print correctly using a conventional B&W process, including Multigrade paper.

    As summicron1 said, it looks like a roll of generic Color Negative stock (print film) was handed back to you. A gray/purplish gray is more to be expected for a B&W film base.


    Absolutely! And it's fun too.
     
  6. mindthemix

    mindthemix Member

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    Thanks for the knowledge!

    The lab is Dale Laboratories in Hollywood, Florida.

    I drooped two rolls that day; one Acros and the other a generic B&W film that came with one Electro 35 I bought. Based on their invoice the first order for the Acros Shows the CODE "BWDEV36" and for the second roll the CODE "C41DEV36". Funny thing is I called them two weeks ago to check if they can develop Acros and their response was a serious yes.
     
  7. FritsM

    FritsM Member

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    Dale Labs? I remember that outfit from ages (well, 25 years) ago.

    They used to sell generic color negative film by mail order that could only be processed and printed by them, and they would supply you with a set of "slides" too. The film in question was color negative stock used in the movie industry, respooled into 35mm film canisters. Hence the slides (color positive prints). Can you hear the film director say: "print it!"

    I forgot what the exact film type number was, 6036 or so.

    CODE "C41DEV36" That tells you all: C41! 36 exposures. Their grand mistake.
    Still, I think they caught it after the fact and pushed some print film on you, while they were trying to wash their hands clean...

    Get a film processing tank, some developer and fixer and do it yourself instead. You'll be amazed how easy it is and with care far superior to anything you've seen before, aside from it being totally customizable to your process and needs.
     
  8. Michael W

    Michael W Member

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    I've seen B&W film that has gone through C-41 and it comes out as clear film, with all the emulsion having been stripped off. As others have suggested it is most likely that they threw your clear B&W film away and gave you some old colour neg film to make you think it was a camera problem. I have heard of labs doing this.
     
  9. AgX

    AgX Member

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    Cine-print film has no mask. It will not show the orange cast typical to most C-41 negative films.

    I assume it is either
    -) un-signed (why?), un-exposed still-photography (KS-perforations) C-41 film

    -) masked cine-intermediary film
     
  10. perkeleellinen

    perkeleellinen Member

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    Years ago I gave a few rolls of B&W to my local photo shop to develop, they had to send it out but when it returned it was completely blank (not orange). It had been put through the C41 process but what was weird was that the sales guy at the shop tried to blame me by saying this was a unexposed roll of film I'd handed in. I argued that it couldn't be as there was no edge markings, hence the lab was to blame. He told me that cameras put the edge markings on the film, hence no markings, no exposures! Took a lot of explaining for him to relent and a lot of time for the lab to properly compensate me (they tried to fob me off with one free roll of generic colour film).
     
  11. AgX

    AgX Member

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    You were lucky Steve;
    Once Kodak lost/destroyed all my Kodachromes I exposed when on my only trip to the USA, even the money for the films alone was a whole lot, plus the money for processing.

    Kodak gave me no refund whatsoever!
     
  12. markbarendt

    markbarendt Subscriber

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    Orange base means you got back C41 film, not Acros, seems they lost your film.
     
  13. polyglot

    polyglot Member

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  15. Michael W

    Michael W Member

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    When I was a teenager I used to think that the camera somehow burned the frame numbers on the film edge.
     
  16. fotch

    fotch Member

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    Maybe the got the film mixed up and yours is still there or someone else got it. I would press the issue with them. Good Luck.
     
  17. BMbikerider

    BMbikerider Member

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    You may be able to trace the date when the film was developed by the number on the reference tab. If it comes back before you even handed the film in then they have a lot of explaining to do and some form of compensation to cover all your troubles and effort
     
  18. canuhead

    canuhead Member

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    yup, looks like they gave you back another roll of C41. They either pooched yours or gave it to someone else. I'd start off nice, then ratchet up the heat, depending on their attitude. btw, does the claim check on the film match the check on your envelope ?

    Regardless, don't let them snow you, no edge markings=no development.
     
  19. perkeleellinen

    perkeleellinen Member

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    What stumped the sales guy was when I asked how the camera knew if I had Kodak or Konica film loaded.
     
  20. mindthemix

    mindthemix Member

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    The envelope came without any reference as well as the negative sleeves.

    Thanks a lot for the advice!
     
  21. mindthemix

    mindthemix Member

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    Thanks!
     
  22. Chan Tran

    Chan Tran Member

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    Oh he didn't know that the camera has sensor that could take a digital photograph of the film cassette and use OCR to know which brand of film, film type and how many exposures. I bet you didn't know that either right? Digital imaging technology was invented way before there were films.
     
  23. mindthemix

    mindthemix Member

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    Thank you guys for all your input and knowledge! I'm still waiting feedback from the lab.
     
  24. E. von Hoegh

    E. von Hoegh Member

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    I remember Dale, too. I even tried their crap once. Judging by the results I remember getting (lousy color, grain) they should be very popular with the hipster crowd.
     
  25. FritsM

    FritsM Member

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    I was teaching a photography class at the time and someone ordered some film and tested it out. Results were like you said and not encouraging for further "experiments." The slides looked like a nice bonus until you projected them...
     
  26. kb3lms

    kb3lms Subscriber

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    Do like some others have said, get a tank and some D-76 or XTOL, stop and fixer and process your own B&W. It's very easy to do and fun! You can be up and running for not a lot of money. No fingerprints and no scratches unless YOU do it so once you get it figured out you will have excellent quality. If you cannot do the whole enlarger/darkroom thing, scan your negatives and send them out for printing, or inkjet print them yourself. And remember, a darkroom can just be a DARK ROOM, so you don't need anything special, although you might want to go that way before long.

    They gave you color film. Any Acros I've used (120 format) has a clear base. What happens with b/w film in color developer is that after the color development step the film is bleached, turning all the reduced silver back into a silver halide. The fixing step then removes all the halide and would leave a clear, blank film. In a color film the reaction between the exposed silver halide and the developer would form insoluble color dyes representing the image. The bleach step and then fixing removes all the silver but leaves the dye image. A b/w film has no dye couplers, so no dye image can be formed. The color developer would still form a negative image but as I mentioned above, the bleaching and fixing step would "erase' it. Color film contains (ideally) no silver once it has been fully processed.

    An unexposed color film will be blank because there are no exposed halides and therefore no dyes will form. However, there would still be edge markings. A truly blank color film has just been fixed out.

    They will try and tell you this was something you did wrong but it's not. It's their doing.

    -- Jason