Adox CMS 20 and Rodinal???

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by stradibarrius, Jan 9, 2011.

  1. stradibarrius

    stradibarrius Member

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    Who processes CMS 20 in Rodinal? I wanted to use a 1+50 dilution but the massive development chart does not show it.
    I have just shot my first roll and want to process it in Rodinal.
     
  2. Alan Johnson

    Alan Johnson Subscriber

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    Adotech, the special developer for this film, is based on phenidone derivate.I believe the oxidation products of this inhibit development and give near normal contrast at the box speed of ISO 20.
    With Rodinal the method of controlling the contrast is to greatly overexpose and develop in dilute solution.I did get a result using EI=3 (three) and developing for 15m 68F agitating every 2 min, this in 1:200 dilution.
    Using higher EI loses shadow detail.
     
  3. georg16nik

    georg16nik Member

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    Hi Barry,
    The 2 images You mentioned in the other thread are developed in Adolux APH09 that is based on the recipes of the original Rodinal formulation from 1918.
    For the film roll with the image "Hands" I shot it @ 10 ASA developer's dilution was 1:100 and develped for 15min @ 20° C / 68 °F 2 agitate for a minute then 2 gentle/slow inversions every 2 minutes. The CMS 20 in fresh fixer needs about 1 minute. The lens was 20mm f/5,6 Russar MR-2 stopped 1 step from wide open at f/8 + yellow 1 or light orange filter..
    For the film roll with those images "Rangefinder round the Church" I shot it @ 12 ASA, developer's dilution was 1:300 for 28min agitation for 1 minute then 2 slow inversions @ 26,25,24,23,22min then 2 slow inversions @ 20,18,16,14,12min then 2 slow inversions @ 8,4min. The lens was 1939 Elmar 50mm f/3.5 stopped at f/4,5 + light yellow filter.
    I usually use distilled water for the chemicals and washing, Jobo plastic tank.

    George
     
  4. stradibarrius

    stradibarrius Member

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    If I use rodinal 1 + 100 for 18 min., as the massive development chart suggest, is there a minimum amount of Rodinal needed in the dilution. If I process one roll Of CMS 20, it takes 500 ml to process one roll of film in my tank. At a 1 + 100 dilution that would only be 5 ml of Rodinal to the 500 ml of water. Is 5 ml enough of the Rodinal?
    Some one on Flicker told me that there was a thread here at APUG where someone shot CMS 20 and used Rodinal 1+50 for 11 min. and got great results?? I can't find the thread.
     
  5. georg16nik

    georg16nik Member

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    The image "Rangefinder round the Church" from my gallery was developed with 4 ml of Rodinal in 1,200 ml distilled water for 28min @ 20° C / 68 °F... I used only 400ml from those 1,200ml.
    Agitation is a very important factor, especially with Adox CMS20! In my experience 1:50 might work if the scenes You shot were of very very low contrast. If You could "sacrifice" the 1st few frames form the roll, just cut them in the dark room and try them out in 1:50..

    Good luck!
     
  6. georg16nik

    georg16nik Member

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    Barry,
    did You shot it at the box speed? 20 ASA or lower?
    In my case I shot it at 12 ASA, so 1:300 for 28 min might not gonna make it in your case
     
  7. stradibarrius

    stradibarrius Member

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    It was shot at 20. Some shots were indoors in my shop and a few were outdoors. I tried to take shots that I have taken before so I would have a basis of comparison.
    I am going to do as you suggested and cut the roll in half process the first in 1+50 and check the results before I process the second half of the roll.
     
  8. georg16nik

    georg16nik Member

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    What type of light source You used inside the shop? The CMS 20 is a bit blind for shadows with bluish cast...
     
  9. stradibarrius

    stradibarrius Member

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    A couple of the shots were under my studio lights, some were in front of a window with overheard lighting.
     
  10. Alan Johnson

    Alan Johnson Subscriber

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  11. stradibarrius

    stradibarrius Member

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    Here are a few shots of the CMS 20 @ 20- Rodinal 1+50 11 min @68deg.
    Too much contrast for me.
    If I used 1+100 dilution would that reduce the contrast?
     

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  12. georg16nik

    georg16nik Member

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    Congratulations Barry!
    At least You got your hands on the CMS 20! However, its is hard to comment without knowing what lens You used, filters and how often You inverted the tank during development.. etc etc.
    I like how the Spruce looks thou. Did You shot some Flame Maple backs?
    1:100 or even 1:200 should bring down the contrast.
     
  13. stradibarrius

    stradibarrius Member

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    I used a Nikon F4 and a Nikon 70-210 AFD At f/4 or5.6.
    I inverted Gently 10 time in the first 30 seconds and 2 time every 2 minutes thereafter. The one shot of the completed violin top I thought was really nice. The others were not what I had intended.
     
  14. georg16nik

    georg16nik Member

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    The combination of Rodinal 1:50 + microfilm such as Adox CMS 20 is normal to show high contrast.
    I am not familiar with SLR lenses.. so, have no idea how this one should shoot.
    Do You have examples in similar lightning environment?
     
  15. Axle

    Axle Member

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    Hm, I have two rolls of the stuff coming my way from Freestyle, I'll give this a go!
     
  16. Thomas Bertilsson

    Thomas Bertilsson Subscriber

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    Using 1+100 dilution does not, in and of itself, lower the contrast. Rodinal is a very powerful developer, and if you dilute the developer more, but develop longer, you get basically the same contrast index with 1+100 as you do with 1+50.
    The trick here is, as with all other films, to develop less time, in combination with adjusting your agitation. If you contrast is too high at 18 minutes, you simply need to reduce time until the contrast isn't too high anymore. 1+100 or 1+50 will not matter much, unless you're getting into developing times of less than 5 minutes at 1+50 dilution, in which case 1+100 makes sense because you then automatically extend the developing time. Sacrifice one roll where you do a series of clip tests, developing at different times. Reduce developing time until contrast is right. That's basically all there's to it, 1+50 or 1+100 matters little; the principle is exactly the same.
     
  17. Michael R 1974

    Michael R 1974 Subscriber

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    What is really required for this type of film is an extreme low contrast compensating developer, not Rodinal. Even if you can get half-reasonable contrast out of CMS-20 using Rodinal at some ridiculous dilution with minimal agitation, you're looking at an abysmal EI and poor tonality. The best I could come up with for this film was a working speed of around EI 3 using TD-3 developer, which produced far better results and uniformity than Adotech. Better, but far from good.