Advice for Mixing C-41 Chemicals for Developing 4x5 in Jobo

Discussion in 'Color: Film, Paper, and Chemistry' started by b.cipolla, Jun 14, 2011.

  1. b.cipolla

    b.cipolla Member

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    I know this topic has probably been talked about to death but I was having trouble finding all of the information I need...

    I am currently acquiring chemicals to process C-41 in my Jobo CPA-2 in a 3000 series expert drum for the first time. I'm having trouble finding information on exactly how to mix the chemicals to make smaller batches, as well as how much of the chemicals should be used for different amounts of film once they are mixed. I say "different amounts of film" because I am processing 4x5 film in an expert drum. When I did this process in a Jobo while I was in school, different amounts of developer, bleach, and fixer were used depending on how many sheets of film we were processing in the drum. These are the chemicals I have (or are on their way):

    Flexicolor (C-41) Developer Replenisher for Color Negative Film
    Flexicolor (C-41) Developer Starter for Color Negative Film
    Flexicolor (C-41) Bleach III Replenisher, Part A for Color Negative Film
    Flexicolor (C-41) Bleach III Replenisher, Part B for Color Negative Film
    Flexicolor (C-41) Fixer & Replenisher for Color Negative Film
    Flexicolor (C-41) Final Rinse

    I would very much appreciate it if anyone could give me any advice or easy to follow instructions. It has been a long time coming acquiring the equipment and researching how to do this and I'm very excited to finally put everything to use. Thank you very much!
     
  2. hpulley

    hpulley Member

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    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 14, 2011
  3. CatLABS

    CatLABS Subscriber

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    RE expert drums - they are one size for all quantities of film used. unlike other 25XX and 15XX tanks where you can adjust the chemical level depending on how many films you have loaded, in an expert drum you must use the same amount every time. when using 2523 tank with 2509 reel, it is enough to use 100ml of chemicals if you are only loading 2 plates and 270ml if you are loading all 6. not much to save in 3000 drums anyway - they are very efficient.

    RE the chems: once you mix the developer you have at least 6 weeks to use it all up. i have not used felxicolor in a while, but if it is how i remember it, it lasts after mixed, in a well stopped bottle for many weeks.
    the bleach will last indefinitely pretty much, if in well stopped bottles, but you will start noticing white flakes of crystallization after a while. this does not affect the bleach and does not affect the films. once the bleach is used, if you intend to use it again, it will go bad a bit quicker, 2-3 weeks. but bleach and fixer are easy, you can always rebleach your films if you need to clear them out.
    fixer will last the same as BW fixer, long long time. final rinse might oxidize, but will also last a super long time, this is the easiest thing to overcome, you can use ANY wetting agent such as kodak fotoflo agfa agapon, ilford ilfotol, tetnal mirasol, and the best i have used - sprint stabilizer - none of these have formaldehyde, which makes them better for you and the rest of the world, and if you buy any small container of the above list it will last your entire life time, if not some generations succeeding you.

    hopes this answers your questions!
     
  4. Sirius Glass

    Sirius Glass Subscriber

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    I used Unicolor C-41 with 1 liter quantities. My 3010 took 500ml each time. Use 800ml of water for the first rinse and 500ml there after. Run Expert Drums on "4" instead of "P".

    Steve
     
  5. b.cipolla

    b.cipolla Member

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    Thank you both for the information! Krifartida, exactly how much chemistry should be used in the expert tank though? I was reading somewhere that 500 mL is too much, as the tank should not be filled fully, as the tank is actually designed to use less chemistry. Please keep the advice coming!
     
  6. b.cipolla

    b.cipolla Member

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    That compilation is EXTREMELY helpful! Thanks a bunch
     
  7. CatLABS

    CatLABS Subscriber

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    what tank model are you using?
    3010?
    3005?
    3006?
    http://www.jobo.com/web/Expert-Drums.855.0.html

    follow that link to Jobos website to see capacities near bottom of page.
    the amounts box is pretty murky at best.

    the bottom line is for 3010\3006 NEVER use more then 350ml (or risk damaging the processor or the cog lid of the tank)
    for 3005 never more then 650ml.

    sine the 3010 min capacity is 210ml i would say just fill it up and use max capacity chems thats the way i do it (though i use 2509 reels far more often).
    if you do BW you might want to consider putting only half the plates in the tank with max chems, that will bring you to about 70ml per place. with color it makes absolutely no difference, 350ml for 5 plates or 20 plates.

    in any case NEVER OVER FILL any expert drums.

    let me know if you have any other questions.
     
  8. b.cipolla

    b.cipolla Member

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    I am using a 3010 tank. I was a little confused on the amount of chemistry to use in the tank because I have been receiving mixed messages from different people. I have heard to use 500 mL for the max of ten sheets but I have also heard to never use that much because it could damage the machine like you said. Also as I said, I was also not sure if you scale down the amount of chemistry for less sheets of film. This chart and your advise clears that up though I guess. Right now, I am only processing color negative 4x5 film, so 350 mL per batch it is.

    Also, I guess these amounts are accurate for Kodak Flexicolor chemicals? I assumed so, but wanted to make sure since Jobo's information could be dated and I didn't know what chemistry they were taking into account (or if different brands of chemistry even matter).
     
  9. CatLABS

    CatLABS Subscriber

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    developer is developer.
    3010 max fill 330ml. i never really understood when you can use 210ml just dident seem worth while finding out...:smile:
    but for the sake of the 120ml that might be wasted it was fine for me.

    the amounts per tank posted by Jobo are only those that denote a sufficient level of liquid to fully immerse the negatives\papers for rotation\inversion, and it is usually pretty tight. thats why sometimes when you do BW and you need more active developer per square cm you need to use to use much much more chemicals then the max capacities of the tanks when doing rotation. when you do inversion its fine to fill a 2553 tank with 2.5L, but put that on a lift and you will soon hear the teeth of the cog flying out. the physycal max fill capacity of 3010 tank is HUGE, more then 3 liters (i think its closer to 5), but it is useless for inversion anyways. 330ml is all it needs.

    all you want to do is just follow the charts form jobo, as per the dates - the only thing that *might* have changed is the time\temp for developer, if it is standard c-41 starting point should be 38.4c (or 100F if you must) for 3:15-3:30.
    bleach as recommended, same for fixer. temp on bleach is less crucial, and temp on fix makes no difference.
     
  10. CatLABS

    CatLABS Subscriber

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    if you want to be safe, or calculate more easily 350 is fine as well..
     
  11. Sirius Glass

    Sirius Glass Subscriber

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    Thank you that is exactly what I have been searching for. I have been using 260ml recently for black & white. The instructions that I have for the Jobo and the book, I have to get its name when I get home, talk about the 500ml and 800ml that I stated for color work with the 3000 series.

    Steve
     
  12. b.cipolla

    b.cipolla Member

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    I am following the instructions to make 1 L batches of chemicals. I see that there are measurements to make 1 L of Developer Replenisher but do I then have to mix THAT with my Developer Starter to make complete developer? I am trying to finish with a 1 L batch of usable developer.
     
  13. CatLABS

    CatLABS Subscriber

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    the answer is right there:
    page 5 of this PDF:
    http://www.kodak.com/global/en/profe...is49/cis49.pdf


    Table 4: Preparing Tank Solutions from Replenisher Solution

    go to the section of c-41
    to make one litre:

    start with 860ml dev replenisher add 126ml water and 14ml dev starter. total 1L
    easy.

    these amounts are stupidly uneven and hard to measure with proper accuracy, but like i said in the PM, starter is not that crucial, and if you round up everything to the next decimal value (130+20ml) you will be 100% fine.

    good luck!
     
  14. hpulley

    hpulley Member

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    As mentioned elsewhere, you don't really need a starter. Starters are more for labs who want consistent results run to run, the starter makes it less fresh, more replenished performance so that a fresh batch isn't different than a batch once you get things going. For home use you don't really need to worry, you can correct for any minor differences from sheet to sheet when printing.