Advice required for dodge and burn.

Discussion in 'Enlarging' started by Andy K, Oct 22, 2005.

  1. Andy K

    Andy K Member

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    For two nights I have been trying to make a print. I have attached two quick scans to illustrate where I am having difficulty.

    In Scan A, I have outlined the area on the print to be dodged. It is an uneven shape with a very sharp outline (marked 'C' on the scan). The main problem is I am having great difficulty in dodging this area (by point 'A') without getting a halo in the sky area around edge 'C'. I have tried cutting a mask from a failed print but still got the halo. (I do move the mask whilst dodging).
    At the same time the wall and steps at bottom of the print (marked 'B') require burning!

    Scan B is the closest I've got yet to getting it right, but there is still a halo in the sky and the area by 'A' is still too dark!

    Any advice gratefully recieved, Thanks in advance,

    Andy.
     
  2. haris

    haris Guest

    Andy, I don't know your experience in photography, but I think you made mistake in moment you press shutter on your camera. If scan A is "original" scan, this photograph is too much contrasty. I would first try to use small graded paper (for example if your prints are on grade 3, I would use grade 1 or even grade 0). Next, it is normal that you can have need for several dodgings and burnings, and each of them with different times, on same print.

    Try again and good luck :smile:
     
  3. Andy K

    Andy K Member

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    That is what I have been doing. Three exposures per print so far! I will reduce the contrast and see how much difference that makes.

    Camera used was a 6x6 Agfa Isolette I. Not a lot of choice in how the photo was made!

    Thanks for your advice haris!
     
  4. haris

    haris Guest

    And there is one more thing. One chemical, I think its name is "ferrycyanide", "bleaches out" parts on which it is applied. When you make print, first dry it completely. Then you use brush to apply that chemical on parts of prints you want to be lighter. You don't have to use darkroom, you do that on normal ambient light. After you finished, you must fix print again (normal fixing way), wash it again, and of course dry it. I didn't use that chemical, but my friend used to use it regulary in past. I can't tell you more about it.
     
  5. Bob F.

    Bob F. Member

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    As it's difficult to dodge awkward shapes, you might try exposing to get the "dodge" area to the right density and then burn the lighter areas in. The advantage being that you can do the burning in several goes and not have to do it all in one.

    You could make your dodger smaller and let the inevitable halo fall more on the buiding than the sky - this will not be so obvious.

    Cheers, Bob.
     
  6. Donald Miller

    Donald Miller Member

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    Drop your contrast grade of the paper...if this is not enough to accomplish what you want, perflash the paper.

    There is no need to do all of this extensive burning and dodging if you get your exposures and film development into line.
     
  7. Neal

    Neal Subscriber

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    Dear Andy,

    A quick contrast reducing (unsharp) mask will make your dodging and burning a lot simpler. Give it a try, it's really not very hard.

    Neal Wydra
     
  8. Andy K

    Andy K Member

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    Thankyou everyone who has offered advice. Several people have said the contrast is too high. That is my fault, I should have mentioned I had the colour head on my Meopta set to Magenta @42. I have since reduced that setting right down to a magenta setting of 8. With a 0.25 second preflash, reduced contrast setting, and an exposure time of 21 seconds at f/22 the print is looking very good now. As soon as it is dry I'll post it in the gallery.

    Thanks again everyone.

    Now, preflash and reducing the contrast made this work. Would someone care to explain why preflash works? What does it do to the paper that it can bring everything under control so well?

    Andy.
     
  9. Donald Miller

    Donald Miller Member

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    Preflash works on paper for the same reason that preflash works on film...albeit on different ends of the curve.

    It induces non image bearing light to allow the highlights to print more quickly on the prime exposure and thus reduces the contrast.
     
  10. Andy K

    Andy K Member

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    Thanks Donald.



    Ok here we go folks.

    I have uploaded a couple of scans of the finished print to Photobucket. Please note ALL dust marks are from my scanner glass, and the lightening towards the top right is my bloody scanner refusing to scan what it sees and trying to second guess me. :mad:

    Ok, there's a small scan here,
    and a large scan here (for those into detail!).
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 22, 2005
  11. Blighty

    Blighty Subscriber

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    If you can get it right, this method is very effective, and I've done it with 35mm negs!
     
  12. Donald Miller

    Donald Miller Member

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    Looks a lot better to me Andy...good work.
     
  13. Donald Miller

    Donald Miller Member

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    Yes, I have used unsharp or contrast reducing masking with 35 mm ...it works. The effect is exactly opposite of preflashing...USM compresses the shadows upwards...Preflashing compressed the highlights downward...
     
  14. haris

    haris Guest

    Much better, Andy. Only one note. Be carefull to clean your negatives from marks, dust, small hairs, etc. Or you will have to spend time for retouching...
     
  15. Andy K

    Andy K Member

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    Thanks haris, the dust etc is on my scanner glass. I should clean it, but really I don't care, lol!
     
  16. haris

    haris Guest

    Andy one question. As me too use Meopta (magnifax 4 with Meochrom colour head - older model) how you make preflashing. I never did that before, and untill decide to buy or not to buy preflashing gadget, I would like to know how practicaly to do that. And as you use almost same equipment as I do...

    Thanks
     
  17. Andy K

    Andy K Member

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    Haris, no special equipment required. :smile:

    I figured the preflash time by placing coins side by side along the length of a test strip of the paper I was using.
    I then set the f/stop of the enlarger to f/22 and set the timer for five seconds.
    I then moved a mask along the test strip one second at a time, I then developed the test strip.
    I repeated this, with shorter times, until I had a strip where the coin outlines toward one end did not show, The point where you can barely see a coin shape on the paper is the preflash time.
    I determined this for my paper to be around 0.25 seconds @ f/22.
    I have a Viponel analogue timer which allows me to set for 6 seconds or 60 seconds by flicking a x10 switch (see attachment), so setting for 0.25 seconds was no problem.
    Then when it came to the print i did the preflash with no carrier in the enlarger, and then exposed the print as normal.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 23, 2005
  18. haris

    haris Guest

    Thank you Andy.
     
  19. Andy K

    Andy K Member

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    No problem Haris, this was the first time I used preflash too! :smile:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 23, 2005