Advice wanted for fixing Toyo 45C rear standard

Discussion in 'Camera Building, Repairs & Modification' started by Lionel1972, Apr 12, 2013.

  1. Lionel1972

    Lionel1972 Member

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    Hi everyone,

    I have a Toyo 45C 4x5 monorail view camera that has been damaged during international shipping. The rear standard frame got pulled so strongly from the block while hanging from the rail in its case during shipping that it sheared off the screws which tie it securely to the block. The scews seem fine but the holes seems useless now as one can pull the rear standard up from its block easily.
    I'm looking for advices on the best way to fix this. I'm thinking about gluing the screws in the block holes. Anyone who has had this problem before? What type of glue would be wise?
    Thanks for your help.
     

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    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 12, 2013
  2. Marvin

    Marvin Member

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    Have you tried the Toyo parts dept. I needed a part for my 45CX and they shipped it right away. They were also able to email me parts diagrams for my camera with part numbers. Hope this helps.
    Marvin
     
  3. Lionel1972

    Lionel1972 Member

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    Thanks for the hint. I'll try to contact the Toyo website.
    Have you been able to unmount your Toyo easily without special tools?
    I wish I could just replace the base and find a way to screw in the screws back.
     
  4. AgX

    AgX Member

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    Other than replacing screws and that pivoting part the screws fit in, I would drill/cut a one size larger thread, drill out the holes at the standard and fix everything with larger screws.
     
  5. Mike Wilde

    Mike Wilde Member

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    Mix of hardwood coarse sawdust and white PVA glue. Force into holes with a toothpick.

    The sawdust allows the filler to flex somewhat when the screw is driven in after the glue has set.
     
  6. Lionel1972

    Lionel1972 Member

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    Thanks Agx and Mike for your advices.
    I'm thinking also about epoxy glue especially designed for metal. I read it dries in about 1 hour and gains definitive strength after 4 hours.
     
  7. AgX

    AgX Member

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    I doubt that Mike's way would work, seen the possible forces and the holes being more or less flat inside now. (But I've never done that...)
    But it yields the possibility to de-install everything! I would only glue the screws directly (then with epoxy heat-set glue) if one still could exchange the whole pivoting assembly when spares should be available.

    A stronger alternative to Mike's idea might be using heat-set epoxy with metal powder added.
     
  8. Lionel1972

    Lionel1972 Member

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    Well I've found an epoxy glue designed for metal to metal that is said to be extremely strong (270 kg/cm2). Since I have no way to access the screws to tighten them even if I manage to remake the holes, I'm planning on gluing directly the surface of he rotating disk of the rear standard to the base plate where the holes are located. I probably won't need to de-install it if I manage to make it work fine glued.
     
  9. noacronym

    noacronym Member

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    Forget any and all ideas concerning glue. The voice of experience. There is no glue that will fix rthose Omega/Toyo broken blocks. Find another block. Don't doubt me--not on this.
     
  10. AgX

    AgX Member

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    Then there is good chance that the glue (depending on its viscosity) runs into the slit surrounding the pivot or onto the surrounding part of the base, in either case make the standard stick to the base.


    If you should slide off the dove-tail glider from the standard, you should get access to those screws, sooner or later.
    I guess...
     
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  11. Lionel1972

    Lionel1972 Member

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    Yes I guess I could run some tests on see-thru surfaces to determine which minimal amount of glue I should put on the rotating disk so it doesn't spill out of its boundaries.
     
  12. E. von Hoegh

    E. von Hoegh Member

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    Your best bet is to replace the broken parts. Second best, to replace the screws with a larger size. Glue is probably the method least likely to work.
     
  13. Lionel1972

    Lionel1972 Member

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    Yes, but it could be worth trying though.
     
  14. superd

    superd Member

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    The glue is NOT worth trying, but it is your choice to do it anyway. I say this only because the bond has little space to make a permanent fix and with such a small area of contact, it is not going to be a sure fix. To extend that area, you would have to rough up the bases that are in contact and it would have to be done quite well, so you could sleep better, BUT we now get into bastardizing the camera (perhaps not everyone would agree). Every time you use it, you'll be thinking about that part, and what are you going to do when it fails at the least opportune time?

    Screw replacement is a rather easy fix (and a good one, but its cost depends on whether you could do it yourself or a machinist would have to do it for you). If the latter, then you may still be far below the cost of the whole block, provided you find a local good machinist and not send it to the few, always mentioned here, camera repair shops.

    Another option is to check ebay and similar as often you will see the rear standard on sale for not much money.
     
  15. Lionel1972

    Lionel1972 Member

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    I have checked eBay for rear standards. Would cost about one third of what I paid for the camera.
    I would replace the screws if I would know how to reach them (not sure if I have the tools needed).
    I plan on running some tests of gluing similarly small surfaces to check for strength.
     
  16. AgX

    AgX Member

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    But why can't you slide off the dove-tail glider from the standard?
     
  17. noacronym

    noacronym Member

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    I do not know if a post of mine actually shows on this forum since a prior disagreement with another member. But once again I can state with absolute certainty that glue will not work on that part.That plastic must be some sort of teflon plastic. I don't know what it is, but glue will simply not repair it, even temporarily.
     
  18. Lionel1972

    Lionel1972 Member

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    I don't know how to do that. It seems that it is stopped from sliding off out of it by some part I don't know how to reach and remove.
     
  19. Lionel1972

    Lionel1972 Member

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    Got a reply from Toyo today. They e-mailed me exploded schematics of all the parts. I might find the way to reach those screws after all and buy replacement parts.