Advise setting up Jobo 2300/2500 for e-6

Discussion in 'Color: Film, Paper, and Chemistry' started by msc20, Nov 27, 2009.

  1. msc20

    msc20 Member

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    I purchased a Jobo 2300 and 2500 to process e-6, I have no previous processing experience and have some questions for you seasoned pros ;-) Any input would be helpful...


    1) Starting out, my e-6 processing level will be low, 20 rolls maybe once or twice a month. So I assume the 2300 is the more sensible one to set up first? Or maybe it does not matter?


    2) I plan to process 35mm, 120/220 e-6. What drums should I purchase for these formats?


    3) I assume its best to have a small hot water heater near the processor for best temperature control. Any recommendations on which one to buy? The feed water is Reverse Osmosis, so glass lined would be ideal.... I would think..


    4) OK for all e-6 used chemicals to go straight down the city drain?


    5) Is silver recover recommended, or is this only for very high volume processing? Any inline systems you can suggest?


    6) I will be processing Fuji Films, is there any advantage to using fuji chemicals? I assume they are identical to Kodaks?


    7) In another thread, "Kompressor" mentioned some Kodak chemical he purchased contains an excellent instruction booklet on the details of e-6 processing. Is this booklet available in pdf format anywhere? Or, if there is other "must read" e-6 processing information, please advise..

    thank you all in advance...
     
  2. dwdmguy

    dwdmguy Member

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    Aw, I wish I could type better, still in the hosp after a massive back operation (Yey, MiFi )
    Ping me in two days and I can help if no one else comes thu. I have the 2300.
     
  3. msc20

    msc20 Member

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    Tom, thanks for the response, hope you feel better soon, I know that post op feeling to well ;-(
    I have time....
    next I will need information on your back surgery, heck, my lower back pain has ruined my life the last few years.... argggg....
    I enjoyed reading and looking at your web site...
     
  4. hka

    hka Member

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  5. msc20

    msc20 Member

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    thanks hka.... not many of these in English... I recall seeing some pdf files from Jobo in English, but can't find them now?
     
  6. Denis P.

    Denis P. Member

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  7. guyjr

    guyjr Member

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    Hi... I recently (in the last few days) started doing my own at home E6 processing, using a JOBO CPE-2 Plus. So far, everything has worked perfectly - I'm using the Kodak 5L "one shot" kit of chemicals, so I can offer a bit of advice based on my experiences.

    I've been pouring my chemicals straight into the kitchen sink - the JOBO has the lift attached, which makes it very easy to drain. The only chemical I really worry about is the bleach, which stinks to high heaven - I leave the tap running for a minute or so while emptying that chemical so as to provide an adequate flush down the drain.

    I've also been using mostly Fuji rolls of Velvia 50, Astia 100, and Provia 400X, with the Kodak kit, and so far, all of the rolls have come out looking spot on perfect in the color department. I use 7:30 for the first developer time, everything else is as stated in the Kodak publication -

    http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/support/techPubs/j83/j83.pdf

    The thing that takes the most amount of time I'm finding is mixing up all of the chemicals... since everything is one-shot, I can't reuse between batches, so I'm trying to load two 120 rolls onto the reel at a time - that has gone a bit easier than I was expecting actually. I use the Kodak recommended amount of solution (250mL per sq ft of film) to determine the amount for this combo, which is 312.5mL (90 sq in per 120 roll x 2).
     
  8. msc20

    msc20 Member

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    Thanks Denis, that was the one I was looking for.... I must have over looked it...

    Hi guyjr, thanks for the input... I was considering putting an exhaust fan in the area where I will set up the processors.... based on your comments, that seems like a good idea? Eventually I will be processing 3 - 5 days a week.

    Does the city allow the chemicals to be poured down the drain? I can't seem to find much information regarding this...
     
  9. dwdmguy

    dwdmguy Member

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  10. msc20

    msc20 Member

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    Tom, nice find!! I recall seeing this years ago... interesting it now exist at a website called "web.archive.org" I never knew such a web site existed...

    Could someone comment on the chemical prices that were quoted on this web page? I will write them below... not sure how dated the web page is...

    e-6 color

    $2.50 35mm/36
    $2.14 120 roll
    $2.52 8x10
     
  11. dwdmguy

    dwdmguy Member

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    MSC, these are very outdated however can still be used in a relative source I think... Don't really know. Someone here will help for sure. I can tell you that if I wait until I have at least six rolls I save quite a bit. I have a single tank as well that gives me 2 135's or 1-220 or 2-120's with the duo tabs. The longer you can wait the better I guess....
     
  12. msc20

    msc20 Member

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    shameless bump
     
  13. Denis P.

    Denis P. Member

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    I'm not exactly an expert (I've started doing E6 less than a month ago, and have done exactly 4 rounds so far :smile:) - but I'll try to help with what I know.

    Can't say exactly, don't know about those two models - I use Jobo CPA2,a manual machine :smile:

    Use whatever is easier and quicker to set up...

    How many rolls at a time? One by one? Three-four 120 films at a time?
    The drum size depends on that. I'm not sure I get your "20 rolls once or twice a month". At once? There's no drum big enough for 20 rolls at once - and even if it were, such drum would be too heavy for the Jobo lift, I think.

    Don't buy the biggest you can, thinking it might come handy. The bigger ones use more chemistry, and are not very practical for 1-2 films.
    Attched is a one-page PDF with the list of Jobo drums. See for yourself which one would suit you best.


    I don't have any experience with the kind of processors you have - like I said, I use CPA2, and I have to use a separate plastic bucket for keeping the rinse water heated properly.

    Hmmmmm.... not exactly, I think. If you have some kind of local waste treatment facility, I think it would be preferable to just dumping everything down the drain...

    High volume only, I'd say. The volumes you mention are not really "high" enough for that.

    More or less. I use Fuji chemicals, but only because I couldn't find Kodak ones locally. Regarding the Fuji/Kodak FILMS difference, the general wisdom is that Fuji films require about 15 seconds more in the first developer: i.e. if the normal time is 6:30, then for Fuji films 6:45 should be used. I've followed that "general wisdom", and got OK results.

    The stuff I've read BEFORE I tried anything:

    1) Fujifilm Technical Info Sheet: 3E6 Processing Kit (PDF)
    2) Fujifilm Technical Bulletin: Process PRO6 (PDF)
    3) JOBO_E-6_Handbuch_GB (the one I linked in my previous post)
    4) Kodak E6process pub. #J83 (PDF)
    5) Kodak pub. Z99 and Z119 (PDF)

    There's more, I'm sure... :smile: But those should keep you busy.
     

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  14. msc20

    msc20 Member

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    Thanks Denis, I see what ya mean by the volume of 35mm.... looks like I will need a few of the 35mm drums, for both high capacity runs (12 per drum) and low capacity, such as the 2 rolls of the 2523/21. I assume your point is, if your drums are too high capacity, you waste a lot of chemicals, cause the chemical fill is a function of drum size, not amount of film in the drum, correct?
     
  15. Denis P.

    Denis P. Member

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    Yes - you have to waste more chemicals than actually required, PLUS you need to handle those unwieldy big drums, PLUS you're putting extra strain on the Jobo lift (your processor does have a lift, doesn't it?)

    In short: when I have only two films to do, I use the smallest tank available/adequate.
    When I have many films at once, I use the appropriate one.

    Last weekend I had to develop 24 sheets of 4x5 Velvia. I had to do it in two runs, because:

    1) my largest drum is Jobo 2840 (which is actually a PRINT drum, BTW), and
    2) I only have 3 reels for 4x5 - one new 2509N, and two older 2509 (without "N" designation). Therefore, the max. number of sheets I can do is 14 (6 in the new reel, and 4 each in the older reels).
     
  16. msc20

    msc20 Member

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    Thanks Denis... I read that some of the jobo reel drums (35mm and 120/220) are much harder to load than some of the other ones... plus, metal vs. plastic?
     
  17. Denis P.

    Denis P. Member

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    Can't help you there - I've never used metal reels. Apart from Jobo, I've used Paterson ones (self-loading, those with the small steel ball), which are good.
    I don'h have any problems loading: I got used to those Jobo plastic ones, I guess :smile:

    With 120 format it helps to snip off the corners of the film before loading it. The reels should be perfectly dry before loading - otherwise it could be very difficult. If you're doing E6, you should not use the final rinse while the film is on the reel: remove the film and put it in a separate tray containing the final rinse. If you do use final rinse (detergent-like, foams a lot) with film on the reel, you should wash the reel very thoroughly afterwards. Same goes for Photo-flo for B/W films. It makes the reels rather sticky if you don't wash them very carefully afterwards, using hot water and an old toothbrush or something.
     
  18. Dave Pritchard

    Dave Pritchard Member

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    The laws about disposal of used chemicals are generally local to your city or town. Where I live, it is legal to put most photo chemicals down the drain, for residential customers. Commercial processors have other requirements.
     
  19. jrydberg

    jrydberg Member

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    I was adviced to run two rolls of 120 in 250mL .. But my slides turn up on the dark side (i run them at 7:15). Maybe 320mL will remedy that?
     
  20. hrst

    hrst Member

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    Kodak Single-Use kit's instruction says to use 260mL for two 135-36 rolls, if I remember correctly. So I would suggest a temperature-related problem (or exposure!) instead of too low chemical activity due to low volume. It's true that 120 roll has a bit higher surface area than a 135-36 roll, but I believe that KODAK's figure has also some safety zone in it. This is because they can't know about the exposure, which has a large influence in the chemical exhaustion. I would guess that the effects of too low solution volume start appearing visually if you have a roll of very bright, overexposed shots.
     
  21. mtjade2007

    mtjade2007 Member

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    Have you checked out Kodak Z-119? It is located in here:
    http://www.kodak.com/global/en/busi...zManuals/z119.jhtml?pq-path=12078/12334/12340

    You will see that you will need tempered wash between the first and color developer steps. The wash water needs to be 38 +/- 1.0 degree C. This is the difficult part for your ATL-2300. I have not figured out how to economically achieve this for my ATL-2300. I have considered to install a smallest electrical water heater available from Home Depot for about $150. I have hesitated for quite a while. I know such a water heater will do the job quite well if I want 50 - 75 degree C water. But I am not sure if it can be set to 38 degree C. I am not sure if the temperature of the water will be stable even within +/- 5 degree C when the process is started.