Agfa-47

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by Relayer, Jun 19, 2013.

  1. Relayer

    Relayer Member

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    Hello

    Old and forgotten developer from Agfa

    Metol 1.5g
    Sodium Sulfite 45g
    Sodium Metabisulfite 1g
    Hydroquinone 3g
    Sodium Carbonate 5g
    Potassium Bromide 0.8g
    Water 1l
    pH=9.6

    Have ~1.5x more speed than D-76. Starting dev.time 5-6min. Produce negatives with normal contrast and great sharpness.

    Kodak Double-X @250 in Agfa-47 5min

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    Ilford Surveillance P3 200 @200 Agfa-47 5min

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  2. Rudeofus

    Rudeofus Subscriber

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    I wouldn't call myself an expert on MQ developers but from looking at its formula there is nothing that suggests it would gain 1.5 stops over D-76. Care to explain how a developer that looks like a mixture of D-76 and D-25 can give so much higher emulsion speed?
     
  3. AgX

    AgX Member

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    Relayer stated to have 1.5 times more speed. That does not mean 1.5 stops more.
     
  4. michael_r

    michael_r Subscriber

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    Hi Rudeofus:

    This Agfa formula goes in the opposite direction of D-25 in terms of activity. Compared with D-76 it operates at a significantly higher pH. Given it has a high pH and half the sulfite of D-76 one would expect grainier results relative to D-76.

    When Relayer says 1.5x speed I assume it to mean 1/2 stop.

    In Anchell it is listed as Ansco 47 and is described as giving somewhat higher than normal contrast, good for use under low contrast or controlled lighting conditions.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 19, 2013
  5. Relayer

    Relayer Member

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    1.5x more speed = Agfa-47 need 1.5 times less time than D-76 for developing film to same ISO. In case Kodak Double-X @250 - 7.5min in D-76 and 5min in Agfa-47. I guess that 7.5min in Agfa-47 will be good for 400 ISO, but contrast may be very high and not acceptable - I can't test this combination.
     
  6. Relayer

    Relayer Member

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    Yes, negatives look like slightly more contrast than usually I have. Probably decreasing amount of Hydroquinone to 1.5-2g/l will decrease contrast.
     
  7. jochen

    jochen Member

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    Hello,
    this is not the formula for AGFA 47, ANSCO 47 may be correct. The original AGFA 47 is an amidol developer.
     
  8. Relayer

    Relayer Member

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    I found formula here: http://www.digitaltruth.com/data/agfa_ansco_47.php
    But in some books I found that Agfa-47=OWRO-47 is amidol print developer. I think this isn't correct because in Agfa Formulas from 1938 this formula listed as Agfa-47. But ORWO-47 is amidol developer
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 21, 2013
  9. jochen

    jochen Member

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    Hello,
    my AGFA book about "Photochemikalien" has been written in 1952 by E. Schloemann and in this book AGFA 47 is an amidol developer.
     
  10. railwayman3

    railwayman3 Member

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    In 1952 the East German (DDR) company VEB Filmfabrik Wolfen was still using the Agfa trademark, as was the West German Agfa company. (Wolfen changed to the Orwo trademark around 1964). So is this a case of the East and West "Agfa" companies using a different numbering system?
     
  11. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    No, the confusion is because Agfa Ansco in the US used different formulae numbering to Agfa in Germany.

    Ian
     
  12. Harold33

    Harold33 Member

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    (Agfa-) Ansco 47 MQ is very close to Kodak 61a, superb gradation, very sharp, but usually grainy. I was surprised by the small grain you get with XX.
     
  13. Relayer

    Relayer Member

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    you right, Agfa-47 equal to D-61a 1+1
     
  14. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    Not breally, it's more like D61a is Agfa Ansco 47 with double the level of Sodium Sulphite. quite different.

    Ian
     
  15. Relayer

    Relayer Member

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    Kodak D61a Stock:

    Metol 3.1g
    Sodium Sulphite anh. 90g
    Sodium Metabisulphite 2.1g
    Hydroquinone 5.9g
    Sodium Carbonate anh. 11.5g
    Potassium Bromide 1.7g
    Water 1l

    Kodak D61a 1+1 / Agfa-47:

    Metol 1.55g / 1.5g
    Sodium Sulphite anh. 45g / 45g
    Sodium Metabisulphite 1.05g / 1g
    Hydroquinone 2.95g /3g
    Sodium Carbonate anh. 5.75g / 5g
    Potassium Bromide 0.85g / 0.8g
    Water 1l
     
  16. Harold33

    Harold33 Member

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    It's the same thing if you consider that 5 gr. Sodium carbonate anhydrous = 6 gr. monohydrated
     
  17. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    I have to admit I was comparing to the Agfa Ansco 47 R - replenisher :D

    When it comes to processing chemistry Kodak lagged way behind their competitors for many years only really bringing out innovative products with HC-110 and Xtol.

    Ian
     
  18. Relayer

    Relayer Member

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    Harold, Agfa-47 use 6g Sodium Carbonate monohydrate = 5.1g ahydrous. so D61a 1+1 use by 10% more sodium carbonate than agfa-47. I think that this isn't very important
     
  19. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    Just to be clear this is not Agfa 47, that is an Amidol developer, and that is very important.

    Ian.