Agfa-Ansco-GAF 81 shelf-life?

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by eli griggs, Jan 2, 2009.

  1. eli griggs

    eli griggs Member

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    I want to try this lith developer but I'm not sure if I an mix up a batch and store it a few days ahead of a session so I'm asking here; what is the shelf life of this developer in glass, unused?

    Any other info or tips using it are welcomed as well.

    Eli
     
  2. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    The Agfa Ansco manual says the Agfa 81 "Reprolith" developer solution has "excellent keeping qualities". Looking at the formula there's no reason to doubt this. It was a commercially available packaged developer.

    Ian
     
  3. CBG

    CBG Member

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    I have two formulas for Agfa / Ansco / whatever ... 81 that I have found on the internet. Could anyone with the manufacturer's formularys sort out whether one or both are good or bogus?

    ----------------
    Agfa 81 Repro developer
    Water 125 F 750.0 ml
    Metol 7.5 g
    Sodium Sulfite anhyd 40 g
    Hydroquinone 3.5 g
    Sodium Carbonate 30 g
    Potassium Bromide 3 g
    Water to 1 L
    -----------------
    Ansco 81 repro lith developer
    Water 125 F 750.0 ml
    Hydroquinone 35.0 grams
    Sodium Sulfite, desicc 55.0 grams
    Sodium Carbonate, mono 80.0 grams
    Citric Acid 5.5 grams
    Potassium Bromide 10.0 grams
    Cold water to 1.0 liter
    -----------------

    Thanks,

    C
     
  4. eli griggs

    eli griggs Member

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    From a comment in the thread, Agfa-Ansco-GAF 81, within the paper developers formulas here, found under the "Articles" section, I believe the first one you give may be the German compounding.

    How this performs as compared to the other, I have no idea so let's hope an experienced member can shed more light.

    Eli
     
  5. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    The correct Agfa Ansco Reprolith formula is:

    Agfa 81 Repro Lith developer


    Hydroquinone 35.0 g
    Sodium Sulphite, anhyd 55.0 g
    Sodium Carbonate, mono 80.0 g or 69.6 g anhyd
    Citric Acid 5.5 g
    Potassium Bromide 10.0 g
    Water to 1.0 litre


    The other formula is the German Agfa/Orwo 81 developer which at first glance looks to be a soft working possibly warm tone print developer
     
  6. eli griggs

    eli griggs Member

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    Thanks for clearing that up Ian.

    Do you have any additional thoughts to share on mixing, storing or using this lith formula?

    Eli
     
  7. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    Can't help you I'm afraid. This is not a type of formula I'd use, I preferred using a modified version of D85 but I was using it for developing Graphics films.

    Ian
     
  8. CBG

    CBG Member

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    Ian,

    Thanks so much for the clarification! I am always surprised at how many variants of a formula seep out on the net. I have tried to corral them all. or as many as reasonably possible, now some many many hundreds, and then look them over for obvious contradictions and error. Regardless, I find myself with an untidy rabble of formulas with multiple versions all claiming to be the one true concoction, and quite a few obviously incomplete mystery formulas.

    C
     
  9. sun of sand

    sun of sand Member

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    Never been able to find anything on "Reprodol" or "Paralith"
    One is a 1 solution the other is a 2 solution

    Maybe the Reprodol wasn't quite a lith developer
    pretty sure both are Agfa/Ansco which means every formula has 3 or more names which means their true identity is probably lost forever unless I buy every pamphlet I find

    But Perhaps Ian has those pamphlets for me? 1940-1950 era
     
  10. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    Yes I'd agree that Agfa Ansco 81 is not a true lith dev but rather a very high contrast developer for a specific film "Repro lith"

    I always used a variation Kodak D85b which is the Paraformaldehyde lith dev, and very similar to theformula of Agfa Ansco 79/79b "Paralith"

    AN 79b

    Part A
    Sodium Sulphite (anhyd) 1 g
    Paraformaldehyde 30 g
    Potassium Metabisulphite 10.5 g
    Water to 1 litre

    Part B
    Sodium Sulphite 120 g
    Boric acid 30 g
    Hydroquinone 90 g
    Potassium Bromide 6 g
    Water to 3 litres

    Agfa Ansco 79b ids the two part version of AN 79.

    Use 1 part A + 3 parts B


    I substituted Sodium Hydroxide and Formaldehyde solution in place of Paraformaldehyde and we used this variation in our graphics studio/darkroom for over 19 years. Back in the 70's I found I couldn't buy Paraformaldehyde, in fact my chemical suppliers didn't know what it was. Variation formula:

    D85 Variation


    Part A
    Sodium Sulphite (anhyd) 120 g
    Formaldehyde (Formalin soln) 30 ml
    Potassium Metabisulphite 10.5 g
    Sodium Sulphite 120 g
    Boric acid 30 g
    Hydroquinone 90 g
    Potassium Bromide 6.3 g
    Water to 4 litres

    Part B
    Sodium Hydroxide 200 g
    Water to 1 litre

    To use 4 parts A + 1 part B

    Hope that helps

    Ian
     
  11. sun of sand

    sun of sand Member

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    I'll go with it. Thanks, man!

    Unblink has Dupont LD-1 with half of every chemical given for Dupont 7-D
    Use undiluted unlike 7-D used 1:1
    7-D is stated as being very sensitive to oxidation?
    Dtruth gives it the other way 1:1

    I have Dupont 21-D Litho A/B Developer not in the 50's handbook or anywhere else
    Except Dtruth lists Dupont 21-D as Sease 3 fine grain PPD Glycin
     
  12. eli griggs

    eli griggs Member

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    I have my GAF 81 mixed and was wondering, just what kind of capacity should it have per liter for 8x10 prints?

    I'll also add that this was the first developer I've mixed with citric acid and boy, was I surprised by the little show it put on. Next time, I'll let the cat watch, no kids at home to enjoy the fiizzzzzzzzz with me!

    Eli