AGFA APX400 w/rodinal - bad idea?

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by Sean, Feb 7, 2005.

  1. Sean

    Sean Admin Staff Member Admin

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    I was going to dev some apx400 in rodinal 1:50 (35mm). I'm not going to print larger than 8x10. I'm looking to achieve some grainy/contrasty street scenes. With apx400/rodinal will it be grain overload?
     
  2. dschneller

    dschneller Member

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    Hi Sean,

    I have developed APX-400, 120 format, in Ilfosol-S and the grain was not bad. There are three pictures in my gallery printed to 6"x6" where I used APX-400, they are "skate12", "Learning to skate", and "Snow Shoes". I hear that developed in Rodinal the grain is horrible but I don't think the contrast will be too harsh. If you're going for grain, you're on the right track. Personally, I liked the mid-tones APX-400 gave me.

    Dave
     
  3. Sean

    Sean Admin Staff Member Admin

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    Thanks Dave, I'll have a look at your shots. I'm hoping someone can post a apx400 rodinal pic..
     
  4. Joe Symchyshyn

    Joe Symchyshyn Member

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    Too much?? Depends on your taste...

    I'd say if you're looking for a grainy 8x10 from 35mm, that APX 400 is a great candidate for experiments.

    Rodinal gives you SHARP grain... And being a grainy film to begin with, I think you'll get what you're looking for.

    If you decide you want TONS of grain... Experiment with paper developer as your film developer...

    joe :smile:
     
  5. VoidoidRamone

    VoidoidRamone Subscriber

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    Here are 2 quick neg scans of 35mm APX400 in Rodinal 1:25.I don't have my notes nearby, but for some reason I think I shot this roll at 200... I don't remember, sorry.
    -Grant
     

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  6. titrisol

    titrisol Member

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    You will achieve a very grainy picture with lots of contrast.
    I have tried that combo and didn;t like it very much. The contrast was too high for me, grain was fine, it gave the ictures some character.

    IMHO APX400 worked great in DDX

     
  7. Rolleijoe

    Rolleijoe Member

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    APX 400+Rodinal=Grain???

    To this day, one of my most favorite prints (16x16) is this combination. Even up close, I can't see any "grain overload". And a series I did @ night of a small carnival.......same thing.

    Grain isn't a problem, I say go for it. Perosnally, I use it 1:25, never 1:50.

    Joe
     
  8. roteague

    roteague Member

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    You are asking for trouble here. I'm sure modafoto will have something to say about all this. :D
     
  9. Ed Sukach

    Ed Sukach Member

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    I've done some very satisfying work withh this combination.

    I'm trying to find a scan of a lanscape image from the Black Forest - Schwartzwald - a few years ago. When I do, i'll post it.
     
  10. pschauss

    pschauss Member

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    I played around a bit with APX400 120 in Rodinal at E.I. 200. It had more life to it than when I tried it with Diafine at E.I. 800, but I prefer APX100 (E.I. 200 in Diafine).
     
  11. duel

    duel Member

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    I had a same problem, I develope apx 400 in rodinal 1:50 and 1:25, but whole time a was not satisfied. So I as read something and find that is D 76 (the main developer) is best for little grain for that kind of film. I try and the results are great. Contrast is normal and grain is normal for that kind of film. I was develope in dilution 1:1.
    Does anyone have some details for developing apx 400 in higher sensity (like 1600 iso), if You have some experiments do You have results? In my book from agfa I have only developing times for apx 400 on 800iso.
    Thank You
     
  12. modafoto

    modafoto Subscriber

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    Always :tongue:

    I am not crazy 'bout the APX400, but used with Rodinal you'll get great grain.
    I like Rodinal with 400 ISO films as the grain is so distinct vs. other devs that gives fluffy grain, and less sharpness.

    Grain is what we live for :smile:
     
  13. pschauss

    pschauss Member

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    What time did you use for D76 1+1? The massive development chart only lists a time for stock D76 for the new version of APX400.
     
  14. duel

    duel Member

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    I have two times 14 min and 14,5 min. I have good results on 14,5 min on 20C
     
  15. MMfoto

    MMfoto Member

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    It's really not that grainy. Not nearly as grainy as Tri-x/Rodinal. I am of course talking about the "new" APX 400. I would recommend Rodinal 1:25 with this film, at 1:50 it starts getting quite flat. I've pretty much given up on this film, though it is beautiful in Pyrocat HD, and quite nice in Diafine under very contrasty lighting.
     
  16. pschauss

    pschauss Member

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    What time have you used for APX400 in Rodinal 1:25? The Massive Development chart lists a time of 30 minutes for APX400/Rodinal 1:50 which, from my experience is about double what it should be. Hence, I do not completely trust their value for 1:50.
     
  17. Dean Williams

    Dean Williams Member

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    The time of 30 min for 1+50 on the Massive chart is Agfa's own recommended time. Agfa also recommends 11 min for the same dilution, so take your pick. They (Agfa) don't tell you if the times are for the old or new APX 400. The newest bottles of Rodinal I have say 11 min for 1+50.

    As far as the times on the Massive chart go, a great many of them are manufacturers recommended times. The rest are just what someone has decided they liked, and wrote in to suggest it be included on the list. At best, they are a place to start.
     
  18. john_s

    john_s Subscriber

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    Agfa's pdf files have had some errors in the last couple of years. I have downloaded and saved them, because I was looking at choosing a 400 speed 120 film. Now that Agfa's supply of 120 size film is a matter of doubt, I have chosen another film.

    From my reading of their files, and ignoring really obvious typographical errors, it seems that their recommendation for Agfapan 400 (new*) in Rodinal 1+50 is:

    Rotary Processing:
    gamma 0.55 15min
    gamma 0.65 30min
    gamma 0.75 no entry for this value

    Small tank, tray
    gamma 0.65 30min (same as rotary? seems a bit odd to me, since for 1+25, there is a big difference between inversion and rotary, i.e. 15min as against 10min)
    no times for other contrast levels.

    Since 0.65 is rather higher than most of use would aim for, it seems strange to offer a time for 0.55 for rotary, but not for small tank (inversion etc). For normal contrast, I would try something like 15min.

    * new emulsion started with manufacturing batch number 450 for 35mm, and 260 for 120 roll film.

    What all of this means is that one needs to do some testing with this combination!

    (The 11 min time was their recommendation for the old emulsion of Agfapan400 in Rodinal 1+50 in small tank (not rotary). If the new bottles of Rodinal still have that time, they are either not new (not a problem, of course) or Agfa's labels are not updated very efficiently.)
     
  19. Nicole

    Nicole Member

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    This is what my new Rodinal Bottle instructions tell me:

    AGFApan APX100. ASA100. Rodinal 1+25 at 8 min. Rodinal 1+50 at 17 min. 20°Celcius
    AGFApan APX400. ASA400. Rodinal 1+25 at 7 min. Rodinal 1+50 at 11 min. 20°Celcius
    Agitation: Continuous agitation during first minute. Afterwards every 30 seconds.

    This is what my up-to-date TAFE College handout tells me:
    AGFA APX100. ASA100. Rodinal 1+100 at 20 min. 20°Celcius
    AGFA APX400. ASA400. Rodinal 1+100 at 17 min.
    Continuous agitation! 24°Celcius

    AGFA APX400. ASA200. Rodinal 1+100 at 15 min. 20°Celcius
    AGFA APX100. ASA100. D-76 1+1 at 13.5 min. 20°Celcius
    AGFA APX400. ASA250-400. D-76 1+1 11 min. 20°Celcius
    Agitation: Continuous agitation during first minute. Afterwards every 30 seconds.

    This is what the new AGFA film box instructions tell me:
    (Attention: New developing times!)
    AGFA APX100. ASA100. Rodinal 1+25 at 8 min. 20°Celcius
    AGFA APX400. ASA400. Rodinal 1+25 at 10 min. 20°Celcius
    Agitation: Continuous agitation during first minute. Afterwards every 30 seconds.

    I have also heard that developing AGFA APX in Ektol is supposed to give beautiful results. Anyway, I'm about to find out in the next week or two. I'll be developing in both Ektol and Rodinal.
     
  20. jim appleyard

    jim appleyard Member

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    Ektol? I don't know this dev.
     
  21. john_s

    john_s Subscriber

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    The times on your bottle are for the old emulsion.

    I would not be surprised if Agfa bring it into Australia only once every few years, since it lasts so well. They certainly did so in the past, and photographers were alarmed when the new bottles (at the time) were pale in comparison to what they had been using.

    Since then, I believe that the formula has changed at least once and possibly twice. It is essentially the same, they say. If you're interested in this, there was a thread on rec.photo.darkroom years ago which could be found perhaps with some difficulty. I think that Michael Gudzinowicz was one contributor, if you do a search.

    And what is Ektol?
    <groan, not another developer to test in the endless quest?>
     
  22. david b

    david b Member

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    I think she might mean XTOL.
     
  23. Earl Dunbar

    Earl Dunbar Member

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    IIRC, there was an Ektol developer, don't know if it's still available, only to pro labs, or if it's really Ektanol... my memory grows fuzzy.

    I have some APX400 lying around, including one roll exposed in an Oly 35SP, and have ordered some more. I have both Rodinal & DDX, and while I love Rodinal, I have heard such good things about DDX that I planned to process the first roll of APX in DDX.

    I have one roll of Agfapan processed in Rodinal 1:50 but with very minimal agitation and at 24C. The minimal agitation allows this dilute developer to give delicate highlight separation while maintaining reasonable grain. As mentioned, the grain of film developed in Rodinal is very sharp, yielding high acutance. In my mind, Rodinal provides the best balance of what I am looking for in a negative. But I have been away from darkroom work for so long that I need to reestablish my workflow. I currently have no printing facilities, so can only process the film and look at the negatives under a loupe.

    Earl