Agfa Papers

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by Mark Layne, Nov 27, 2004.

  1. Mark Layne

    Mark Layne Member

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    Last winter I made some prints on Agfa Fibre and RC papers and did some selective toning in Sepia , Gold and some Copper. They were beautiful and I recently reprinted a couple on Ilford Multigrade IV with the intention of tweaking the colours a little.
    To my surprise I found that toner response with these papers is close to nil and ghastly in Kodak Sepia. Most of the warmtone papers tone beautifully but very differently.
    I have come to realize that Agfa Classic may be one of the most under appreciated papers of current times, excellent neutral tone, good gloss and the best 'toning experiment' colours I've seen. It can be converted to ivory base with a light blue tone and redevelop.
    Also the RC Premium Glossy is the only one I've used which does not have that veiled look.

    Mark
     
  2. ann

    ann Subscriber

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    Am not surprised that you found the Ilford paper "wanting"; Ilford indicates this paper is resisted to toning and color shifts.

    Have you tried any of the Forte or Bergger papers for color shifts. (warmtone versions). they too have some interesting color shifts.

    Each paper type and toner type will results in very different results; all of which gives us a wide variety of options.
     
  3. donbga

    donbga Member

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    Amen to that brother! It is a sweet paper! If you like that paper I would also recommend Cachet. I've not tried many toning tricks with Cachet but it's a nice performer.

    Don Bryant
     
  4. Dr.Kollig

    Dr.Kollig Member

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    The Agfa Multicontrast Classic Fibre paper (a.k.a MCC) is also good for lith printing. My favourite is the 118 a kind of pearl surface, combined with a warmtone developer lovely for portraits.
     
  5. Mark Layne

    Mark Layne Member

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    The Warmtones tone wonderfully but more aggressively. Kodak made Polymax in C surface- a semi gloss with a neutral image on a cream base. It was a luscious paper but I cant seem to find it anymore even though I bought some less than a year ago
    Mark
     
  6. Mark Layne

    Mark Layne Member

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    Hmm - I never thought of trying it for lith printing.
    On that subject if anyone has some old Kodabromide which seems a little weak in the blacks. give part of its development in lith developer. It won't give any lith colors but will give good deep blacks
    Mark
     
  7. TPPhotog

    TPPhotog Member

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    Mark can I ask you to explain this bit please :smile:
     
  8. Peter Schrager

    Peter Schrager Subscriber

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    Plymax C

    Mark-have you tried to get in touch with B+H in NYC? If anyone might have that surface they would. Calumet is another source I would call.
    Regards Peter
     
  9. Mark Layne

    Mark Layne Member

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    I was toning a marine scene in iron blue toner and also in Speedibrews Porcelain blue. Often I did not like the blue result so placed the print back in developer which redeveloped it to its original B&W state.
    This gave a colder tone to the image(expected) but the base was also creamy and seemed to vary depending on the bleach used.
    Toning in green tea can also give a lovely base color
    Mark
     
  10. TPPhotog

    TPPhotog Member

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    Thank you Mark now I understand. It's one of the things I love about APUG, I learn something new every day :D
     
  11. ooze

    ooze Member

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    I totally agree that Agfa MCC is a superb paper, with fantastic shadows. I've been using it for more than 3 years now. Every once in a while I try something else but always return to Agfa. It's also very good in Selenium, i.e. you can get a nice split in tones. As a matter of fact, I lugged several packets of MCC111 from the UK to a photographer friend in Turkey, because the paper is not available there. It's *that* sought after by some who appreciate it's qualities.
    As you know, Agfa has a very light warm tone. If you ever feel the need for a colder tone for a particular negative, you may want to try Forte Polygrade. It has a similar tonal richness.
     
  12. titrisol

    titrisol Member

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    Yes Agfa MCC and MCP are outstanding papers. And in this town tehy are cheaper than Ilford and Kodak :smile:
    They tone real well in vciradon and selenium. It feels a bit like to good ol'brovira
     
  13. Joe Symchyshyn

    Joe Symchyshyn Member

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    I couldn't agree more... It's my fiber paper of choice (and rc for contacts).

    I'm framing up some work today done on it and toned in Kodak Brown toner... 2 minutes in hot toner gives a GREAT brown!

    joe :smile:
     
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  15. ldh

    ldh Member

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    Dont know why Agfa papers often dont get the praise they deserve...I personally think they are some of the best on the market...if you talk to master printer, Jim Megargee at MV LAbs in NYC, he will tell you that Agfa Fiber is what his lab uses for all custom work unless requested otherwise. TriX (or that matter most films) in rodinal on either 111 or 118 is outstanding. Antonin Kratochvil has all his exhibition work printed on MCC glossy as does Salgado recently (even though he claims to use only Kodak products). I use LDP with it and have great control over the warmth or coolness of the print.
     
  16. Maine-iac

    Maine-iac Member

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    I agree wholeheartedly that Agfa's MCC is a great and greatly under-rated paper. I "discovered" it while living in France, and quickly came to appreciate it. In side-by-side comparisons with Ilford MGFB, which I had previously used almost exclusively, I discovered that in every instance, the local contrast and shadow detail was superior in the Agfa. The only other one that matched it was Tetenal's Vario-Contrast, which I suspect was the same paper, and which is not available in this country. The developer will change the tone to a cooler or warmer overall tone, depending on which formula you use.

    Larry Kalajainen
     
  17. Tom Stanworth

    Tom Stanworth Member

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    Yup, wholehearted agreement...apart from me thinking that the only other paper as equally underappreciated is Kodak Polymax Fine Art fibre. Superb.
    Agfa MCC also lith prints nicely for stoney tones.

    Tom
     
  18. Mark Layne

    Mark Layne Member

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    Tom
    I have to agree with you about Polymax, you hardly see anyone mention it.
    It's a beautiful cold tone with a paper surface much like the old Elite, one of the nicest suface finishes ever.
    The C surface has the same texture in semigloss ivory base, but I am beginning to suspect they have discontinued it.
    Mark
     
  19. lee

    lee Member

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    I used to use the Agfa graded papers Broveria and the like then the Mcc paper came out and to be perfectly honest Every pack I have bought has been expired and highlights are gray. They replaced the paper but it too was expired. The owner of the shop told me they don't get any in date paper anymore. So, I don't buy it anymore. Whether it is true I don't know.

    lee\c
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 3, 2004
  20. skahde

    skahde Member

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    As has been mentioned before: Depending on where you are, Agfa MCC is also available as Tetenal Baryt Vario and this is what I use. I finished a box of Agfa MCC just yesterday and went on with a box from Tetenal and could once again confirm to myself that they are identical. In the black boxes MCC can be had for considerably less than in the orange ones.

    Can you imagine I really enjoy this dark(room) time of the year? Holidays are still far enough away, wheather is unfriendly enough to stay inside. I'm having a great time exposing paper...

    Stefan
     
  21. Maine-iac

    Maine-iac Member

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    Stefan, I gather you're in Europe. Tetenal Vario is not available in the U.S.--at least I haven't found it here yet, and Tetenal does not list it on its U.S. website. It's probably some trade agreement between Agfa and Tetenal that prevents Tetenal from selling it under their name here. You're absolutely right about it being cheaper in its Tetenal packaging; it used to cost me about 15% less in Paris than the Agfa.

    Larry
     
  22. titrisol

    titrisol Member

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    Lee, I haven't had problems with Agfa papers, IMHO they are one of the longer lasting papers.
    They just change the look of the boxes recently, the last one I bought (about 4 wks ago) had a picture of 2 guys in the front.... guess that tells you the date somehow :wink:
    [​IMG]

    According to the agfa webiste SELL BY DATE has been added to the paper labels.

     
  23. Maine-iac

    Maine-iac Member

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    Ditto for me. No problems with Agfa paper.

    Are you sure your developer is OK? Right formula? Right dilution? Too old?
     
  24. Joe Symchyshyn

    Joe Symchyshyn Member

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    I have first hand knowledge of older Agfa MCC paper...

    I just used some that is 5+ years old, stored in my basement darkroom. Just printed some 16x20s (something I do VERY rarely, hence the old paper) and the white is clean and clear.

    So far so good after over 5 years that I'VE owned it... Who knows how long it was at Agfa before that...

    joe
     
  25. ldh

    ldh Member

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    Polymax also underrated

    I agree with the post about Polymax Fiber...I was encouraged to give it a shot this week by a colleague who prints for a living here in Prague...I came to the conclusion that I prefer it to Oriental for my choice of cold-tone papers...I think that somehow its not hip to like the papers in the yellow box, so you never hear about them or from people who use them. I for one am convinced... and the F surface is fantastic in selenium.
     
  26. Mark Layne

    Mark Layne Member

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    Polymax F has a prominent surface texture not seen in other papers.
    It adds to the quality of the image since it actually looks like paper IMHO
    Mark