Agitation habits

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by fparnold, Jul 15, 2003.

How do you get agitated?

  1. Continuous agitation

    15.4%
  2. 5 sec every 30 sec

    46.2%
  3. 10 sec every 60 sec

    38.5%
  4. Stand Development (as little as possible)

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. Polaroid.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. fparnold

    fparnold Member

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    I was reviewing the manufacturer's recommendations the other night (first roll of Delta 3200 in 120), and was idly curious about their recommended agitation schedule (5sec every 30 sec), wherease I had picked up 10 sec every minute from somewhere. I presume that this was because I was using DK-50 + HP5, and wanted better edge effects, but the younger me isn't answering today.

    What do the other roll-film types here do, and any rationale?
     
  2. lee

    lee Member

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    oh, I see, for roll film I do 10 seconds every 60. Have for 35 years and experience no problems.

    Sheet film is in trays and done continuously


    lee\c
     
  3. Ole

    Ole Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    When I develop roll films, I generally use 3 inversions every minute or so - unless i have a good reason for doing something else. 35mm film I give 2 inversions every 30sec - it's all just habit.

    Sheet film in tank gets 2 inversions every 5 minutes with very dilute developer - almost stand development. Or it goes in the tray, which could be anything from continuous to 30minute intervals depending on flim, developer and subject.

    So I won't vote :tongue:
     
  4. David A. Goldfarb

    David A. Goldfarb Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Depends!

    PMK likes lots of agitation, so every 15 seconds.

    Most films, every 30 seconds, but Delta 400 in Perceptol seems happy with once per minute.

    In trays I'll shuffle negs continuously in pyro developers, but others I may cycle every 30 sec., rotating 90 degrees periodically, and shuffling with one more rotation than the number of sheets per cycle, so that the same sheet isn't always on top.
     
  5. Robert

    Robert Member

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    When I do it by hand it's 10 seconds per minute. Which I thought was the Ilford way. 5sec per 30 seconds I thought was the Kodak way. Some of this is related to how long you develop. If you're at the low end of the time range then I think the 5sec every 30 is going to make more sense then if you're using a dilute developer and looking at 15minutes.

    With the motorbase I've no idea how fast it goes.
     
  6. Loose Gravel

    Loose Gravel Member

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    Start with 30 sec continuous and a good rap on the tank to dislodge the bubbles. Then it was two inversions (5sec) every 30 sec. Now with PMK it is 1 inversion every 15 sec. After inversion I clock the tank 90 degrees before the next inversion.
     
  7. Donald Miller

    Donald Miller Member

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    I haven't developed roll film in years. On my 4X5 film, I continuously interleave--bottom to top. On 8X10 and 12X20 film, I brush develop and this is a fairly continuous process as well.
     
  8. Poco

    Poco Member

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    Don (?)

    Could you eplain the technique of brush development and its benefits for 8x10? 12x20 would probably give you no other options, but I'm curious how brush development helps with 8x10. Do you develop by inspection with brush development?
     
  9. Jorge Oliveira

    Jorge Oliveira Member

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    Usually 5 complete tank inversions every minute.
    If I'm looking for some compensation, I spread the inversions to each 2 min.
    Haven't tried stand development yet...
     
  10. Jorge Oliveira

    Jorge Oliveira Member

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    Slightly OT - re brush development (if I understood right)
    I used to develop large prints using paint rollers...
     
  11. Donald Miller

    Donald Miller Member

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    Poco,
    The procedure that I use in brush development is that I use a Hake brush. I first presoak the negative in a water bath. Then I place the negative emulsion side up in the developer tray and move the brush in much the same way that I would if I were painting the negative (lightly)... covering the negative in straight lines from one side to the other. When I am finished covering the entire sheet this way I then brush at 90 degrees to the first "pass". When finished with the 90 degree pass I then return to the pattern of the first pass.

    The advantages are the most evenly developed negatives possible with the least possible damage. The disadvantages are the length of time processing one sheet at a time. However, I really think that the extra time spent in developing this way is offset by the absence of damaged negatives, the evenness of the development, and the ease of printing the properly developed negative. When I get impatient, I think that Edward Weston most often developed his negatives one at a time. There certainly is no arguing with his results. Not for me anyway.

    Yes, one can brush develop by inspection. Just inspect the film to a green filtered 15 watt bulb at 75-80% of the expected development time.
     
  12. Poco

    Poco Member

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    Thanks, Don (I think it's Don?) So I gather it's a slow, steady brushing technique? Is overlaping of lines critical -- something to be avoided/desired? And lastly, how, given such "agitation" would times compare to a shuffle regime of 4x5, assuming the same soup?

    Sorry for all these questions, but I've only read of the technique in passing once before and am intrigued. Given how long it takes me to set up any shot larger than 8x10, the time element of developing single sheets seems inconsequential.

    -Michael (Poco)
     
  13. David A. Goldfarb

    David A. Goldfarb Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I think Jorge wrote something in a thread about brush development a while back. Check the archives for more info.
     
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  15. Ed Sukach

    Ed Sukach Member

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    I set the JOBO Rotation motor to "P". How do I vote for that?
     
  16. Eric Rose

    Eric Rose Subscriber

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    To P or not to P, that is the question!?
     
  17. RAP

    RAP Member

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    I personally use HP Combi Tanks and have done so for 15 years. I think it is superior to trays and JOBO, (debatable issue for some). They are 4x5 tanks with daylight lids that you use similiar to roll film tanks. I find that the processing is much smoother and uniform over the sheet film then trays.

    I did an experiment once, exposed 6 sheets of 4x5 on a smooth card for zone IV, V and VI and processed them in trays normally. Once dried, upon examination, the center of the film had almost 1/2 stop more density then the edges. Apparently when you push the film into the developer, you get a swirl of agitation causing uneven development.

    The tanks I find facilitate different agitation times, and compensating development. My standard agitation is 10 secs/1 minute. For compensating its 15 secs/ 3 to 4 minutes.
     
  18. Jeremy

    Jeremy Member

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    5 seconds every 30 thirty seconds for my roll film in stainless steel tanks and continuous in the unicolor tube for my 4x5. I think I may set aside some $$$ to get some unicolor film tubes and reels, though, as I love the absolute ease with which I can develop my 4x5 at the moment.
     
  19. Les McLean

    Les McLean Subscriber

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    35mm and roll film, first 30 seconds constant agitation with several sharp raps to dislodge bubbles followed by 3 inversions every 30 seconds. If I want to increase edge sharpness I start as above and then give 15 seconds agitation every 2 minutes.

    4 x 5 is usually with the BTZS tubes but if I have a large number to do I develop 10 at a time in the tray using the shuffle method from bottom to top giving continuous agitation.

    Stand developent starts at 5 hours.
     
  20. philldresser

    philldresser Subscriber

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    35mm - constant for first 30 secs then ten inversions every 60secs.

    Sheet 5x4 is done in homemade BTZS tubes and therefore continuous agitation.

    Never tried tray development or dev by inspection.

    Phill
     
  21. olecowboy

    olecowboy Member

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    For 35--10 EASY rotations in first minute and five easy rotations each minute thereafter.
    For sheet film--continuous agitation.
    Garfield
     
  22. George Losse

    George Losse Member

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    I agree with Ed. I set my rotation speed on my Jobo and let it do the driving. I use the "F" setting mostly.

    George
     
  23. fparnold

    fparnold Member

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    having started this, 10 sec every minute on small film, and continuous hand-rolling of the jobo for 4x5.

    Sorry to your guys with the processors having P, F, etc, settings, but I've never actually seen one, so didn't think to include it.

    I tried tray development of 4x5 for a while, but I gouged a couple of negatives even after practicing for a while, so I moved on to the daylight tank and continuous agitation. I haven't lost any, but do worry about losing acutance due to the continuous agitation.
     
  24. Thilo Schmid

    Thilo Schmid Member

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    I prefer rotary tube development in a processor. Constant conditions for agitation and temperature deliver 100% reproducible results.
     
  25. Aggie

    Aggie Member

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    ..
     
  26. phampl

    phampl Member

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    in Rodinal 1:200, three times each 15 minutes :O)