Amidol Developer Formula & Lodima

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by Andrew O'Neill, Apr 25, 2009.

  1. Andrew O'Neill

    Andrew O'Neill Subscriber

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    I had the amidol formula for Lodima, but now I cannot find it. Could someone direct me to the formula? I saw Michael's amidol formula for Azo on their website but couldn't find it for Lodima...if I recall, wasn't it slightly modified for Lodima?? Thanks!
    Does anyone know how long the stock solution lasts in a full bottle? Thanks again!
     
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  2. Shawn Dougherty

    Shawn Dougherty Member

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    I don't believe you can prepare a stock solution... Then again I wasn't aware there was a revised Lodima formula either so who knows. Sure would be nice to mix a stock solution of amidol.

    I've been using the MAS formula for Azo except I've been adding 5 grams of straight KBR instead of the recommended solution. Gives a very nice warm look to the paper, especially when selenium toned.

    All the best. Shawn
     
  3. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    Amidol developer, once mixed with water, will not keep well at all, even in full stoppered bottles.

    I am working on an additive that will double or triple the life of mixed Amidol developers, but you cannot expect much solution life or capacity from such an active developing agent. It keeps wonderfully when dry though. I really don't know if there would be any interest in such an item though.

    PE
     
  4. Captain_joe6

    Captain_joe6 Member

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    I'm interested! Count me in!

    Now that I think of it, what is the capacity of, say, a liter of an amidol developer? I don't think I've ever gotten to that point, as I've always tossed the developer after a couple hours.
     
  5. Markus Röhling

    Markus Röhling Member

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    Apparently Wolfgang Moersch has developed an Amidol where the stock solutions will at least keep one year and the working solution for several weeks in full stoppered bottles. See http://www.moersch-photochemie.de/content/shop/positiv/8/lang:en

    So far I haven't tried this developer nor do I know how it will work with Lodima. But I would be interested to know since I would like to use Wolfgang Moersch's Amidol in case I will order Lodima.

    Markus
     
  6. jgjbowen

    jgjbowen Member

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    I (and others) have put enough prints through MAS amidol that I ran out of developer prior to having the developer exhaust itself...somthing like 75 single weight Azo 8x10/liter of developer. It will last 8+ hours in the tray.
    Amidol really is pretty inexpensive when utilzed in this fashion. ($75 worth of paper through $5 of developer)

    With the double weight Lodima I expect I will be mixing amidol in 1.5 liter batches...
     
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  7. jgjbowen

    jgjbowen Member

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    Andrew, I just checked the info received with my Lodima and MAS suggests 3ml Kbr/liter of amidol. This is a change from the 2ml Kbr/liter posted on the Azo forum. Somewhere along the way, MAS increased the Kbr by 50% in order to obtain the print color he preferred from the last batches of Azo. As Shawn has pointed out, different photographers will vary the amount of Kbr slightly in order to effect print color.

    Good luck!
     
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  8. JLP

    JLP Subscriber

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    I believe it was a mistake when Michael wrote 3ml instead of 2ml, if Kbr is mixed in a 10% solution it should be 30ml (3cc) instead of 20ml (2cc)
     
  9. jgjbowen

    jgjbowen Member

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    Hey Jan,

    Nope, no typo. 3ml is of a 10% solution/liter is correct. If your photo is the White House in a snowstorm 20ml might get your whites bright enough.....of course I believe the blacks will also be paper white with that much restrainer. A 500 ml bottle of 10% Kbr solution should last you for years and years...

    After a good friend of mine told me he used 8ml Kbr in his Amidol formula I decided to find out for myself. I was looking for the changes in the print color as the Kbr was increased from 2ml/liter to 4ml, then 6ml, 8ml and finally 10ml. I made prints on Canadian Grade 2 Azo, Rochester Grade 2 Azo, Grade 3 Azo and maybe Lodima. As I got to 10ml, the blacks were about a zone V gray. I discovered that the prints needed much more exposure and or longer development to get to a black in the image. So, how could my friend get decent images with that much Kbr in the formula?

    When I contacted my friend to share my results his response was "Oh, you mix your Amidol in 1 liter batches.....I mix mine in 2 liter batches." :surprised:
     
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  10. JLP

    JLP Subscriber

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    John, You may be right but then the formula on the AZO forum is incorect, 2cc is recomended for the MAS formula and that is 20ml

    I do by the way get perfect blacks after 1 minute with the 20ml Kbr.
     
  11. JLP

    JLP Subscriber

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    My mistake, i have used the European cl centiliter and confused that with cc.
     
  12. jgjbowen

    jgjbowen Member

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    Jan, The problem is 1 cc = 1ml, not 10ml

    http://www.mathleague.com/help/metric/metric.htm

    middle of the page under volume... "From these units, we see that 1000 milliliters equal 1 liter; so 1 milliliter equals 1 cubic centimeter in volume."

    Best,
     
  13. Mahler_one

    Mahler_one Member

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    Hopefully Mike will be able to give us details.

    Ed
     
  14. Michael A. Smith

    Michael A. Smith Subscriber

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    A friend alerted me to this thread.

    I think Sean Dougherty has it right. We upped the KBr from 2cc for one liter to 3 cc for one liter.

    For 3 liters I upped the KBr from 8 cc to 12 cc.

    Seems to give better print color with a little more KBr.

    If we are going to print all day for 8x10 we mix 1.5 liters. KBr, if I am recalling correctly (on the road and not in the darkroom right now) went from 3.65 to 5.5 or 6 cc.

    If we are only going to print for a short time (rare) we will mix only one liter of developer.

    Amidol is so easy and quick to mix, (it mixes at room temperature) why would anyone want to mix a stock solution? The sodium sulfite should be fresh and that means mix before use or relatively shortly before.

    Let me know if anyone has any questions.

    Michael A. Smith
     
  15. JLP

    JLP Subscriber

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    Agree, i was using cl instead of cc a factor of 1:10
     
  16. doughowk

    doughowk Subscriber

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    I'm very intrigued by Moersch's Amidol Plus My printing sessions are usually short ( eg, an hour before work or late evening); so mixing Amidol even for Lodima is not cost effective. I usually use PF130; but, if Moersch has succeeded in creating a stable working solution, then a switch to Amidol is justified. Its currently not on Freestyle site but is available at RetroPhotographic. Any body with experience on this product?
     
  17. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    Markus;

    Thanks for the information. I will have to look into it.

    PE
     
  18. Mahler_one

    Mahler_one Member

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    Thanks Mike! However, 3 cc KBR for one lilter would be 9 cc for 3 liters, and not 12 cc IF THE AMOUNTS ARE PROPORTIONAL. Thus, the amounts must NOT be proportional....a very important fact to note for all of us, and I believe mentioned on your web site. So...what is the amount for 2 liters of developer? How does one extrapolate? I guess one might have to do some experimenting based upon the color one desires!


    Ed
     
  19. seadrive

    seadrive Member

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    Is the amidol that Photographer's Formulary sells okay for use with Lodima? I ask because the description on their web site says that it's best used with bromide papers...
     
  20. Shawn Dougherty

    Shawn Dougherty Member

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    That's all I did. I just mixed up the recommended solution and kept adding KBr until I was getting the color I wanted.