Analysis of Da Vinci Paintings and Leica

Discussion in 'Camera Building, Repairs & Modification' started by Mustafa Umut Sarac, Jan 11, 2012.

  1. Mustafa Umut Sarac

    Mustafa Umut Sarac Member

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    We analysis the lens systems with MTF , Color MTF , different seidel or zernike abberations.

    Some Leica lenses are interesting , for example Summicron 50. When you look to the MTF Chart , you find there are 2 images in one image. One is contrasty and other is less sharp. This goes in to classify the lines of the image , if there is a center of the image ,some lines represents tangential , others are parallel to the virtual rays spreading from the image center.

    At Leica , whenever the one class sharpens , other class blurs and the opposite .

    And the blur is calculated so well , it gives a healthy , lively , smooth , a holographic pop up detailed skin.

    Well , I defend , this is similar to classic paintings.

    They are built from many layers , deep layer blurred , top layer sharp and everything transparent.

    Well , can we define , analysis these paintings with analogy of indicated tests. May be yes , but may be there are other analysis , synthesis techniques.

    So what do you know ?

    Umut
     
  2. NB23

    NB23 Member

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    I think you're over-analyzing and you're trying too hard to justify your Leica ownership.

    In my many years of shooting and printing, I still can't detect what lens was which when I look at prints, even the 16x20 prints, unless I clearly remember at the time of shooting. But still, long ago I decided that my talent (whatever it is) and my love for photography were worth the insane money I'd put into the system just for the sake of it. Just like a car Lover wants to drive a Ferrari just for the sake of it.
     
  3. Mustafa Umut Sarac

    Mustafa Umut Sarac Member

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    I own a 60 dollar Leica and its a price range that anyone can have it.

    But you cant buy my art history and archaeology education , 100000 prints ,years of prepress and press experience and my 30 years of photography experience.

    You can buy my Leica but not my attention with low attitude.
     
  4. NB23

    NB23 Member

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    Oki doki!
     
  5. NB23

    NB23 Member

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    When you sell it, let me know :smile:
     
  6. Mustafa Umut Sarac

    Mustafa Umut Sarac Member

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    You can buy it from internet.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 11, 2012
  7. Mustafa Umut Sarac

    Mustafa Umut Sarac Member

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    Attached , Leonardo Da Vinci , Virgin on the Rocks painting restoration analysis.
    You will find 4 pictures attached prerestoration and postrestoration.
    I will post two Leicina Cine Camera shots and you will find the same subtle tones which looks as restorated at bright daylight and not restorated at little bit darker light.
     

    Attached Files:

  8. Mustafa Umut Sarac

    Mustafa Umut Sarac Member

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    [video=youtube;skZ0qpYwfIQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skZ0qpYwfIQ[/video]

    In this basic video , I invite your attention the boy and girls faces and their smooth 3D degrades with some glow at light hit places. Leicina Special Optivaron 6-66 Super 8 Ektachrome 64T

    [video=youtube;y00woXDAugQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y00woXDAugQ[/video]

    This is Leicina Special with 10 mm Macro Cinegon Super 8 Ektachrome 64 T
    This ia longer movie , attention might be given to girls face , playing with corn.
    A more darker taste and grain

    Umut
     
  9. Mustafa Umut Sarac

    Mustafa Umut Sarac Member

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    IMHO Restoration destroyed these two paintings , its like playing with photoshop. I think at next century , it can be coated again.
     
  10. Sundowner

    Sundowner Subscriber

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    Don't underestimate the texture of the painted surface - as well as the heavy texture of the paint itself - when it comes to layered paint analysis. This gives a very literal and significant third dimension to the painting...one that is practically absent in the silver print.

    Also, a better correlation to the painting technique would be a multiple-exposure shot, where there are very real "layers" of the image that are built into the finished work. Subtle illuminations and bases can easily be done in this manner both on canvas and film. Stating that the lens is doing this is not quite accurate; there may be intentional aberrations that lend certain qualities to the image, but this is a far cry from the classical painting techniques that you reference. It is also a process, which - if it is, indeed, taking place as you say - you have no control over. You get what the lens gives you. On canvas - and this can be done with film, as well - you create the layers you wish to have to give the image the qualities you wish to portray.

    I think you're over-simplifying.
     
  11. NB23

    NB23 Member

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    Are these two videos really supposed to show any resemblance to Da Vinci's portraits?
     
  12. E. von Hoegh

    E. von Hoegh Member

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    What I do not understand is why a double Gauss lens made by Leitz gives different image characteristics from a dG lens made by Nikon, say.
     
  13. Jed Freudenthal

    Jed Freudenthal Member

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    I would not compare a Leonardo painting with a Leica lens, but it is a fact that photography is based on (oil)painting principles. This has been documented by H.P Robinson in his photography manual of 1869, and has been reprinted many times (Eastman Kodak 1971 e.g). I doubt that the similarities between painting and phtography show up in 35 mm. But in larger format it is certainly the case. In the last 20 years the high definition in photography is back again, and that is what Leonardo and other great masters just were doing. Imagine, the brush strokes of Leonardo in the Mona Lisa were less than 2 mm by one hair broad. And the in 20 layers!! This was High Definition 500 years ago. They painted with a magnifying glass. And most masters did it that way. Some present day photography is a revival of the painting long ago, but with a different technique. However, I think, this a the case with some large format photography. A Leica can show quite some detail, but not that much.

    Jed
     
  14. NB23

    NB23 Member

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    Jed, I think we're just in the same old rhetorical wether "Art imitates Life or does Life imitate Art?", which was the one main question and basis of the whole rennaissance Art.
    But I'm not sure what Leica or Vivitar lenses have anything to do with it.
     
  15. Jed Freudenthal

    Jed Freudenthal Member

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    Painting is using the laws of nature (effect of light). And, in its interpretation this is called chiaroscuro. And, when this is the case in painting, it is certainly so in photography. Leonardo saw it that way 500years ago. And I can quote the painter Constable in a 1816 lecture:' Painting is a science, and should be persued as an inquiry into the laws of nature. Why, then, may not landscape be considered as a branch of natural philosophy (physics), of w hich pictures are but the experiment'.
    And, I would say, photography can be considered the same way. And, the painter/photographer H.P.Robinson saw it in the 19 th century that way too.

    Jed
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 12, 2012