Another Pyrocat-HD question

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by coriana6jp, Nov 16, 2006.

  1. coriana6jp

    coriana6jp Member

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    Hi All,

    Sorry to ask this, as I know its already been asked and I did check the archives. But I need to confirm my guess.

    I have tried processing 8x10 JandC 100 in Pyrocat HD with Glycol. I recieved the developer already as a pre mixed liquid (Formulary Kit). And I am processing the film in a Jobo 3005 Expert tank on a roller base.

    Both times, the film has come out extremely thin, almost completely clear except for the highlights; which seemed pretty normal on some of the negatives. The shadow detail was non existant. I processed an exact identical set of Negatives in my usual D76 1:1 and they came out fine, so my guess is either the developer has gone bad, or has somehow gotten contaminated.

    My process run in the jobo is a 5 minute pre-soak, 14 minutes in the developer, 30s water stop, followed by 5 to 6 minutes fixing in fresh Ilford Hypam.

    Any ideas or advice is greatly appreciated.

    Thanks!

    Gary
     
  2. karavelov

    karavelov Member

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    What dilution you have used? Normally Pyrocat-HD is mixed (a+b) and diluted with water as 1+1+100.
     
  3. coriana6jp

    coriana6jp Member

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    Thank you for the reply,

    I used 1:1:100 dilution. 10ml of each A & B and 1000ml of water.

    Thanx!

    Gary
     
  4. Scott Peters

    Scott Peters Member

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    I use 1.5 : 1.5 : 100 for about 9 + minutes at 72 degrees tray processed and they come out great. I shoot at 100. The shadows will look thin but print fine, you may be surprised. I would try printing one and report back. The negs are contrasty which I like for a certain look. I am contact printing as an fyi. If you like the dektol - perhaps just stick with it. But print both and compare?
     
  5. photomc

    photomc Member

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    You might try a different dilution, some use 2:2:100 (I do) for the reason you stated. Using 1:1:100 mine would come out just as you described. Also, be sure to be the part B out of part A except when you are mixing working developer (sorry if that seems a bit basic, but it will kill part A if even a little part B get in there over time).
     
  6. User Removed

    User Removed Guest

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    I use the exact same developer and film and never had a problem such as this. I'm using 2-2-100, rating the film at ASA 50 and development times are usually around 10-30 minutes.

    So....I suggest bumping up your dilution and doing about the same time, maybe abit longer.
     
  7. Bruce Osgood

    Bruce Osgood Membership Council Council

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    Gary,

    My Jobo negs have been turning out as you describe yours. I started using 1.5+1.5:100 and that made a marked improvement. Secondly I found what appears as 'correct' time is in the 6+ Jobo minute area, NOT 10+ as I thought was the correct time.

    Between Unblinking Eye and APUG there is a lot of information offered, much of it has been updated and is not the current Sandy King findings. I don't know what is the latest info regarding Time/Temp and dilutions.

    It would be nice if there was a single source of information on Pyrocat HD but maybe we just have to experiment until the definitive book is written.
     
  8. Dave Krueger

    Dave Krueger Member

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    Wow! This sounds similar to the problem I was having with Tmax 100. I used Pyrocat HD in glycol 1:1:100 and got film that was practically clear except for highlights which seemed fairly dense. Identical film developed in Xtol came out fine and I repeated the test several times (with 35mm and 120 size) with the same results. But, I've been using that same batch of Pyrocat since then for every other film (Tmax 400, Pan F, Adox PL100) with absolutely no problem.

    No one else seems to have this problem, so it's obviously something I'm doing, but I eventually gave up and just don't use that particular combination of film and developer.
     
  9. Jim Noel

    Jim Noel Member

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    The only time I have ever had too thin negatives with this devceloper has been when they are underexposed.

    You don't mention your EI for this film. I suspect it is underexposed rather than a development problem. My test with this film in Pyrocat HD in an Expert drum indicate an EI of 25-40. In other words, 1 2/3 to 2 stops more exposure than if exposed at 100.
     
  10. gainer

    gainer Subscriber

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    When you get a chance, try Pyrocat MC.
     
  11. George Collier

    George Collier Member

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    I also had the same problem, with TMax 100, as Dave states. It was a test in bright sunny conditions, bracketed. I shot again with Ilford FP4, great results. There was also another post in the last few months describing the same experience (TMax100, I think, but I'm not sure).

    The only thing that rings a bell to me is reading about the TMax films when they were first released (Fred Picker, I think) and the warning that the 100 speed film was verrrry "responsive" to developer variation.

    Sandy - any ideas?
     
  12. Kobin

    Kobin Member

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    Have you tried making a print? I find thin negs from pyrocat print well, better than dense ones.

    K.
     
  13. sanking

    sanking Member

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    George,

    I don't have a clue. If there was some kind of universal response of TMAX-100film in Pyrocat-HD the developer variation theory could make sense. But most people who are using TMAX-100 and Pyrocat-HD, including me, are not experiencing any kind of problem. And I have used the film in both medium format and sheet film, though never in 35mm. So for sure there there is no basic, universal incompatibility with this combination.

    Sandy King
     
  14. Tom Hoskinson

    Tom Hoskinson Member

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    I routinely develop TMAX-100 (35mm, 120 rollfilm and sheet film) in Pyrocat-HD and in Pyrocat-MC and I have never experienced any kind of a problem.
     
  15. coriana6jp

    coriana6jp Member

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    Thanks to all those who replied. Right now I using an EI of 100, if that makes any difference. I may try to push my dilution up to 1.5-1.5-100 and see if that makes a difference.

    Thanks again.

    Gary
     
  16. gainer

    gainer Subscriber

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    Might also avoid presoaking. Swelling the emulsion with plain water means the water must be displaced before development can begin. Just a thought.
     
  17. Tom Hoskinson

    Tom Hoskinson Member

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    Pat, I always use a 5 min. tempered water presoak before developing TMAX-100 in Pyrocat (HD, MC and P versions). I've never seen a problem.
     
  18. gainer

    gainer Subscriber

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    Some years ago Phil Daxis did an article for what is now Photo Techniques wherein he presented results of presoaking on a number of films. I can't remember all of it, but I remember that some films responded differently from others. I think the T-grain films have been changed in the meantime anyway. I remember a time when I had to use a bit of wetting agent in developer for Tmax-100 to avoid air bells.
     
  19. Tom Hoskinson

    Tom Hoskinson Member

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    I shoot a lot of Kodak TMAX100 and TMY400 My film is all fresh with current emulsion numbers. I use a 5 minute tempered water presoak and I have seen no development problems based on densitometry and printing the negs.

    I use the same 5 minute presoak procedure with Kodak TXP 320, Efke 100 and Efke 25. I have experienced no Pyrocat development problems with these films either.
     
  20. karavelov

    karavelov Member

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    Ilford Hyparm is acid fix that kills the stain. Try using alkaline fix with low sodium sulfite : TF-4 from PF or OF-1 from "recipes" of this site or plain hypo fix.

    Best luck
    luben
     
  21. lee

    lee Member

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    just to muddy the waters, I use Kodak Rapid Fix without the hardener and I have seen no problems with reduced stain with PMK or Pyrocat HD. When I was using PMK and shooting Ilford films (mainly HP5+) I tray developed everything and I used a pre-soak for about 2 min. I also added about 4 or 5 drops of LFN to the pre-soak. Theory was Ilford adds some photo flo substance (or so I was told) to the film emulsion and I would be washing it out and I also thought it might help keep the film from sticking together.

    With Pyrocat HD I am using a rotory style drum and motor base and I pre-soak for 5 min using Jobo's methodology. Same Fix no loss of stain. go figure.

    lee\c
     
  22. jgjbowen

    jgjbowen Member

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    You also don't mention the volume of developer you are using. Sandy would be he expert here, but I think you would need a pretty large quantity of 1:1:100 to develop 5 8x10 sheets of film.

    Good luck with this.
     
  23. sanking

    sanking Member

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    This came up just a few days ago on another thread. All of my own work with rotary processing is based on the use of 250 ml of the 1:1:100 dilution. That would be 1250 ml to develop five sheets of 8X10 film.

    If you use the 2:2:100 dilution you can use slightly less. In fact, quite a bit less. For example, I have developed 20X24" film using as little as 500 ml of the 2:2:100 dilution, even though the minimum amount as suggested above would have suggested the use of about 1500 ml of solution.


    Sandy
     
  24. lee

    lee Member

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    I use 500 ml of pyrocat for 4 4x5's or 2 5x7's or 1 8x10 but only because the math is much simpler and I am not a rocket scientist.

    lee\c