Ansco 130 and film developing

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by waynecrider, Mar 17, 2005.

  1. waynecrider

    waynecrider Member

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    I had bought some Photographers Fomulary 130 developer (I believe a copy of the Ansco 130 formula) for print developing but want to try it as a film developer, both with standard agitation and stand developing. I have read that the Ansco formula can be used in this way and some have had success. If anyone has some times to experiment with I'd appreciate a note. I'll be using Efke 100 in 4x5.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 17, 2005
  2. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    It might be worth doing a search for Agfa 130 its on page 20 of their "Agfa Formulas for Photographic Use", published by Agfa Ansco of Bingham in 1941.

    It's listed as a Universal Paper developer.
     
  3. jnanian

    jnanian Advertiser Advertiser

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    hi wayne -

    i have had good results using ansco 130 as a film developer as well as a paper developer. i stumbled upon this by accident when i thought it was the formulation for gaf universal developer, and started using it the way i would have gaf universal. ( semi-exhausted developer ) 1:5 68-70º for about 7 mins. i later learned (here on apug actually --- http://www.apug.org/forums/showthread.php?t=5999 ) that it was NOT gaf universal, but just the same i still process film with it anyways :smile:

    i have processed tmax 100, tmax 400, ilford hp5 and old tri-x as well as creativ200 ( foma ?). most of what i processed has been sheet film and i develop by inspection, so even though i suggest 7 mins, i might be off a little bit. tom hoskinson has experience using it as a stand develop too ( i think ?) he might have been using a 1:10 dilution, but i am not quite sure.

    i don't have experince using ekfe film, and i am not sure what you processing methods are ( i am kind of reckless to be honest ), so you might want to use my times and temperatures with a big fat grain of salt :smile:
     
  4. dancqu

    dancqu Member

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    Ansco 120 works well, with Pan F+ at least:
    120 roll, 500ml of Ansco 120, 1:19 dilution - 2 inversions
    each 2min. 12minutes 73 to 75 F. Dan
     
  5. waynecrider

    waynecrider Member

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    J, Tom mentioned using it at a dilution of 1:20 but I don't know if for semi stand or stand developing. I was hopeing he would show up here.
     
  6. jnanian

    jnanian Advertiser Advertiser

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    wayne -
    i can't seem to find the PM he sent me regarding the times and temps he used. i remember he did some tests and recorded his results, but i seemed to have purged some of my PMs and it is lost in cyberspace. or maybe one of those inktomi-slurp-robots ate my PM by mistake :smile:

    if i come across it, i'll let you know!

    -john
     
  7. Tom Hoskinson

    Tom Hoskinson Member

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    Hi Wayne,

    I tested Ansco 130 at the 1:20 dilution and found that it worked quite well as a film developer. I will dig out my time/temperature and density data and repost it.

    I ran these tests to satisfy myself about questions that had been raised about the suitability of Ansco-130 as a Universal Paper and Film developer.

    I did not try it with stand development, as I recall, but I expect that it would work well in that mode.

    I also tested Ansco 130 at a dilution of 1:10 (I found it too energetic for my tastes at that dilution).

    Another interesting Glycin based developer that worked very well for me is Agfa 8 (intended for use as a film developer). It is reputed to be a good stand developer. I have only used Agfa 8 as a minimum agitation developer.
     
  8. waynecrider

    waynecrider Member

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    Tom, is there a formula floating around for the Agfa 8? Also, thanks for the effort to post your times with the 130.
     
  9. asaphoto

    asaphoto Member

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    Ansco 130 for Film?

    I have a friend who is trying to use Ansco 130 as a film developer. I think he was gonna mix it 1:5 or 1:7. I was wondering if anyone has tried this and may have any information on how it works, development times etc...
     
  10. df cardwell

    df cardwell Subscriber

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    There isn't anything to be gained from this. Other than using a particularly fine paper developer to try to make a negative.

    I personally believe that glycin is magic, and that 130 is a fine place to examine that magic in detail, but this is a case of applying the right answer to the wrong question.

    All it will prove is that it CAN be done, but developers like Rodinal, DK50, and HC-110 will do a better job. Ansco 130 has nothing to offer film.

    If he wants to experiment with glycin, the best developer for film is FX2 ( certain magic ), Edwal 10 ( like D-76, with superb highlights ), or D-78.

    good luck

    .
     
  11. jim appleyard

    jim appleyard Member

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    Others will differ, of course. If you do a search you will find some folks here that like using 130 for film. I believe Tom Hoskinson is a fan, perhaps he'll see this thread and help out with times, temps, or give you a link.
     
  12. jnanian

    jnanian Advertiser Advertiser

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    hi asaphoto -

    i have been using ansco130 for film now for about 5 years ( i thnk? ).
    i have had very good luck with it, but others i know have had very bad luck. i happened upon using it for film when it was suggested to me that it might be the same "stuff" as gaf universal developer so i processed my film and paper in it for a few years only to realize that it wasn't the same developer at all, but still gave me good results.


    at first i used it with sheet film ( all i shot ) and i would dilute somewhere between 1:4 and 1:6, never very exact, sorry. i use the developer warm - at about 72º and shuffle the film in a tray. i usually stop after about 6 3/4 min and look at the film to inspect it ( dark green safelight ) and go on for another minute + ... i use a water bath before developing ( about 2 mins ) and water instead of stop ( again 1-2 mins ). for roll film i used to process the same way ( was a bit contrasty), but now i dilute it a bit more (1:10 and i have started doing it 1:20ish ) still water bath, still no stop ... i leave it in the tank for 25 minutes, only agitate 3 inversions @ 15 mins, and 3 inversions @ 23 minutes.

    i used to use sprint ( d76-metol-free-cone ), tmax rs, xtol, but after i started using ansc0 130 i pretty much stopped using the others ... xtol maybe about 1ce a year to see what i am missing (NOT!) :smile:

    its not for everyone, but if your friend wants to experiment a little bit i think he will have a good time.

    - john
     
  13. Dave Miller

    Dave Miller Member

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  15. Tom Hoskinson

    Tom Hoskinson Member

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    Dave, I've used it with film at the 1:5 dilution, the 1:10 dilution with normal agitation and Semi-Stand at the 1:20 dilution. Good results with the Kodak TMAX films. I've posted results on Apug in the past.
     
  16. Gerald Koch

    Gerald Koch Member

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    Many print developers began as universal developers. Among these are good old D-72.
     
  17. David A. Goldfarb

    David A. Goldfarb Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Two threads merged. There is another thread on Ansco 130 as a split developer for film, if you search.
     
  18. Tom Hoskinson

    Tom Hoskinson Member

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    With Kodak TMAX 100, I dilute Ansco 130 stock 1:20 with water and develop semi-stand for 26 minutes at 22C.

    This Time/Temperature/Dilution would be a good starting point for Kodak Tmax 400 TMY and TMY-2.

    With Efke 25, I dilute Ansco 130 stock 1:20 with water and develop semi-stand for 18 minutes at 22C.
     
  19. herb

    herb Subscriber

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    Ansco 130 and film

    I read some of the threads on using this paper developer and made a couple of trys with some test shots I happened to have left over from a previous dev. test. Film was Ilford Delta 100, 5x7, shot at 50 speed, developed in 130 1:20 for 26 min semi stand, and 20 min semi stand at 71F.
    I got this starting point from Tom Hoskinson, and thought I would post this on the site rather than a private email in hopes someone might have similar experience.
    Result: negatives look like they were developed in Rodinal on steriods! Very contrasty, and over developed. Haven't printed yet, that is today. Looks like I may have too strong a dilution.
    Both were semi stand, water soak 5 min, 1 min slow agitation in hanger, then 1min slow agitation at mid way, then water wash and fix.

    Tom, any thoughts on this?
     
  20. herb

    herb Subscriber

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    Ansco 130 and film

    As an add on to the above, I mixed up a fresh batch of 130, although the glycin was a very pale tan color.
     
  21. David A. Goldfarb

    David A. Goldfarb Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Threads merged.
     
  22. Tom Hoskinson

    Tom Hoskinson Member

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    Herb, I don't develop on hangers, but in a slosher tray, I agitate by raising and lowering diagonally opposite corners of the tray (i.e. about 30 seconds of agitation) then I allow the film to stand without agitation for half the total development time - agitate again for about 30 seconds - allow to stand without agitation for the remainder of the development time.

    With 35mm or 120 rollfilm in a SS tank, I soak for 5 min in tempered Deionized Water, drain the tank, pour in the developer and agitate for 30 seconds by gentle twisting inversion of the tank. Then I allow the tank to stand without agitation for half of the development time, followed by 30 seconds of gentle agitation by gentle twisting inversion of the tank. Then I allow the tank to stand without agitation for the remaining half of the development time, drain the tank, rinse with tempered Deionized Water, Fix, Wash and Dry.

    You might also try dilutions of 40:1 or 50:1.
     
  23. herb

    herb Subscriber

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    Film and 130

    Ok, might have been too much agitation. i will re test with 30 sec and see what happens. One thing I did not mention is that the sky was way darker (in the negative) than the same scene/exposure/film in either Rodinal or pyrocat hd,
    .

    I have a lot to print, will wait till I have that done before more test shots.
     
  24. ZorkiKat

    ZorkiKat Member

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    Agfa 8

    Reply, for a 3 year old post::wink:

    From an old ORWO Recipe book for Agfa/ORWO 8

    Water.....750 ml
    Sodium Sulphite....12.5 g
    Glycin.......2 g
    Potassium Carbonate....25 g

    Described as a "Compensating Portrait Developer" 8-10 mins, soft.
     
  25. David A. Goldfarb

    David A. Goldfarb Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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  26. Tom Hoskinson

    Tom Hoskinson Member

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    Yes:

    That is the Agfa 8 recipe I use:

    Warm Water (125 F or 52 C) - 750.0 ml
    Sodium Sulfite, desiccated - 12.5 grams
    Glycin - 2.0 grams
    Potassium Carbonate - 25.0 grams
    Add cold water to make - 1.0 liter

    I find it to be an excellent developer for portraits.