Any good NON-fine developers?

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by IloveTLRs, Oct 23, 2007.

  1. IloveTLRs

    IloveTLRs Member

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    I see all these developers like Microfine, Super-Prodol, D-76, etc. but they're all fine grain developers. I'm looking for a dev that doesn't do that - I want Tri-X to look grainy and punchy like it did in the 60s. How do I go about doing that? What's a grainy developer?

    (I was told in another thread that I could make my own Rodinal ... well, it's not sold in Japan (at least, I couldn't find it anywhere) and the chemicals used to make it aren't readily available here either.)
     
  2. JBrunner

    JBrunner Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    You might try pushing the hell out of your film. That's what those guys were doing about half the time.
     
  3. Tom Hoskinson

    Tom Hoskinson Member

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    Geoffrey Crawley designed his FX-16 developer to show the grain of high speed films while retaining excellent contour sharpness.

    You can make an excellent rodinal clone from the non-prescription headache medicine acetaminophen.

    acetaminophen is also known As N-acetyl-para-aminophenol or para-acetyl-amino-phenol.

    Try an APUG search for both of these.

    http://www.apug.org/forums/forum37/41760-best-way-get-grain-hi-contrast-400tx.html
     
  4. karavelov

    karavelov Member

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    Also known as paracetamol
     
  5. David H. Bebbington

    David H. Bebbington Inactive

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    Easiest solution is print developer, for example the times for Ilford PQ Universal are given here:
    http://www.digitaltruth.com/devchart.html
    Note that this is used 1+29 instead of the usual 1+9 for prints, Any other print developer can be used on the same basis, and the dilution can be increased to give a longer more controllable development time.

    Regards,

    David
     
  6. Neal

    Neal Subscriber

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    Dear IloveTLRs,

    If it is available to you, give Kodak T-Max developer a try. You won't get "golf balls" but you will easily see crisp grain in an 8x enlargement.

    Neal Wydra
     
  7. jim appleyard

    jim appleyard Member

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    You can also dilute devs like D-76 to 1+3. I do this with slow films like Pan-F to bring out the sharpness in them. With Tri-X it will show more grain than the 1+0 dilution, but I don't know if it will it show enough for you?
     
  8. David A. Goldfarb

    David A. Goldfarb Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Dektol makes for a grainy film developer.

    You could also try ABC pyro, if you can get the chemicals or order a kit from Photographer's Formulary.
     
  9. David Brown

    David Brown Subscriber

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    Acufine?
     
  10. Paul Howell

    Paul Howell Member

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    DK 50
     
  11. Tom Hoskinson

    Tom Hoskinson Member

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  12. fschifano

    fschifano Member

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    It might appear to be contrary to logic, but Microdol-X can make for a very good developer without delivering very fine grain. The trick is to use it diluted 1+3. The same can be said for D-76, though it can be difficult to find data for many films with this dilution.
     
  13. georgegrosu

    georgegrosu Member

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    I make tests with Neopan SS film is treated in: Ilford ID-11, Kodak D 23 (fine grain developers) and Ansco 90 (universal developer).
    You can see comparative pictures.
    After the tests, my opinion is: the grain film contribution is much more that the developer.
    You can see more comparative pictures here: http://membres.lycos.fr/georgegrosu/4 revelatori.htm .
    George
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 2, 2009
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  15. Michel Hardy-Vallée

    Michel Hardy-Vallée Membership Council Council

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    HC-110, Rodinal
     
  16. jim appleyard

    jim appleyard Member

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    You can also shoot another film than Tri-X if you want. Ilford's Delta 3200 and Kodak's T-3200 can be shot at an EI of 800 (only 1 stop faster than Tri-X) and souped in all the devs mentioned above. I believe you'll be in grain heaven.
     
  17. pentaxuser

    pentaxuser Subscriber

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    Thanks for this. Nothing to do with grain but I thought that the scans improved in look as you moved from Kodak to Ilford to Ansco. The Ansco seemed to produce the punchier and more natural look in the dog's fur.

    If all other things are equal and if every neg showed the same look then I would use Ansco on "looks" grounds alone.

    pentaxuser
     
  18. dancqu

    dancqu Member

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    Print developer = carbonated developer. With very few exceptions.
    Any low sulfite carbonated print developer will do. What the OP is
    after is an high ph Rodinal - Beutler - FX-1 type. Ansco 120 print
    developer is very low sulfite and worth a try. A very simple Home
    Brew. The higher the ph the greater the grain. Dan
     
  19. IloveTLRs

    IloveTLRs Member

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    I pushed Presto to 800 the other day but didn't see any difference :confused:

    I've got some Neopan SS I'm going to push to 200 in D-76 once I'm finished. I guess it can be pushed to 400? Anyone?

    I'll try pushing Tri-X to 800 and pulling TMAX 3200 to 1000. (I've heard it's rated that anyway.) I shot TMAX 3200 once before on a rainy night and it was grain heaven :D
     
  20. Paul Howell

    Paul Howell Member

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    I just read the current web site, but in all of my older data guides Kodak listed DK 50 as moderate grain. Perhaps with the newer emlusions moderate is now fine?
     
  21. Tom Hoskinson

    Tom Hoskinson Member

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    Paul, DK-50 is a Metol - Hydroquinone, Kodalk, Sodium Sulfite developer.

    Maybe the current Kodak DK-50 Recipe contains a different amount of Sodium Sufite than the original version of DK-50?
     
  22. Paul Howell

    Paul Howell Member

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    All of the DK 50 I have on hand is old stock at least 20 years old, I am using it with 4X5 and some 6X9 so the gain has not been an issue. I might dunk some 35mm Forma Pan 400 to compare with Microdol X and Edwal 12. In the past I always DK 50 to be much grainer than HC 110 or Microdol X with 35, but I like the tones for 4X5.
     
  23. georgegrosu

    georgegrosu Member

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    You are right, the tests with Neopan SS processes in Kodak D 23, Ilford ID-11 and Ansco 90 developers resembles. If you go here: http://membres.lycos.fr/georgegrosu/9 images.htm you can see better comparatives pictures between two negatives films (Neopan SS and Neopan 400) developed in Ilford ID-11. I thing you can see different grain films.
    For me, the probleme of Neopiece SS it not the grain- I believe is the drawing of pictures.
    George
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 24, 2007
  24. Rolleijoe

    Rolleijoe Member

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    I've never known D76 to be a "fine grain" developer. That's what Microdol-X and now (more or less) X-tol is for.

    You can try pushing a stop and processing in Rodinal. There are quite a few Rollei & Leica users who love Tri-X with Rodinal. However, the grain is not "golf-ball" size as some users always stress, but rather a pleasing acutance which gives the film a certain look.

    1:50 for 6.5-7min should be a good starting point for you.

    Good luck!
     
  25. georgegrosu

    georgegrosu Member

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    You are right Rolleijoe, here:
    http://www.digitaltruth.com/techdata/rodinal.php
    http://www.digitaltruth.com/techdata/kodak_d76.php
    http://www.digitaltruth.com/techdata/kodak_d23.php
    http://www.digitaltruth.com/techdata/kodak_dk50.php
    developers came for General Purpose and Low Contrast.
    I know that the fine grain developer has same particularities:
    - low speed of reduction of silver halogenure;
    - low developer ph;
    - developer have in the composition a chemical who dissolve the silver halogenure.
    I have much respect for this site and these dates.
    If you see the chemical composition of the developers you can see that Kodak D 23 and D76 have:
    - a time of developement not short;
    - low ph;
    - a big measure of sodium sulfite (100 g/l).
    For this, for my Kodak D 23 and D76 developers it s fine grain developers.
    All the tests: http://membres.lycos.fr/georgegrosu/9 images.htm, http://membres.lycos.fr/georgegrosu/4 revelatori.htm I make with NEOPAN SS and NEOPAN 400 out data from 2001 (6 years).
    I preferred make my developer from the chemicals, not with the kit.
    I have a good control of process.

    George
     
  26. Paul Howell

    Paul Howell Member

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    It may be that as film has improved over the past few decades with finer gain developers like D 76 are now considered to fine gain, Microdal X very fine gain, and even DK 50 is now considered fine grain. I have a roll of Plux X from the 70s that had been frozen until last year, it appears to be gainer than the most recent version of Plus X, which match my negatives from the 70s and 60s.