Anyone got a safelight?

Discussion in 'Australia' started by thisispants, Jul 15, 2011.

  1. thisispants

    thisispants Member

    Messages:
    63
    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2009
    Shooter:
    35mm
    So at the moment I'm stuck trying to use my bicycle light as a safelight. I'm testing it out tonight, but ideally I'd like a proper safelight.

    Anyone have a spare they're willing to sell and post to Canberra?

    Cheers
     
  2. pcyco

    pcyco Member

    Messages:
    429
    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2007
    Location:
    near vienna
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    hallo

    take the philips led deco light in red (1 or 3 watt)
    it works very well -> better than my paterson safelight
    and its bright and cheap.

    --

    thomas
     
  3. jp498

    jp498 Member

    Messages:
    1,467
    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2009
    Location:
    Owls Head ME
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
  4. thisispants

    thisispants Member

    Messages:
    63
    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2009
    Shooter:
    35mm
    Great, where can you get the philips led globe from? Bunnings? Im not finding much online from Australian stores
     
  5. MattC

    MattC Member

    Messages:
    19
    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2010
    Location:
    Adelaide
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Interesting - what papers have you tested this with?
     
  6. Ken Nadvornick

    Ken Nadvornick Subscriber

    Messages:
    4,784
    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2005
    Location:
    Monroe, WA,
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    If you can lay your hands on one or more of these red (~630nm) OptiLED Festival S11 bulbs*, then cover and allow it to shine through a single sheet of Rubylith, you will have a DIY safelight that will not fog Ilford Multigrade IV FB or RC paper for at least one hour.

    I know, because that's what I use (six of them on a strip under a curved sheet of Rubylith) and I've done the preflashed safelight fog test using this combination. I stopped the testing at 60 minutes with absolutely no sign whatsoever of paper fogging, even when tested using a reflection densitometer to confirm what my eyes were telling me.

    The Rubylith acts as a cutoff filter and is required to suppress a tiny sliver of blue light also emitted by the unfiltered bulb. Its effect on the red output is negligible. Suppressing that small blue component is what gives the insanely long fog test results.

    Ken

    * Or what I believe may be the higher-powered successor OptiLED Festival H13-VF bulbs. Or any other bulb using the same basic red LED element.
     
  7. Newt_on_Swings

    Newt_on_Swings Member

    Messages:
    2,115
    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2011
    Location:
    NYC
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Wow, Ive been looking for a nice safelight as well. My teaching darkroom has spoiled me with the thomas duplex in there. What kind of fixture did you make for these bulbs? are they standard screw in socket ends?
     
  8. pcyco

    pcyco Member

    Messages:
    429
    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2007
    Location:
    near vienna
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    hallo

    sorra i did not realice while my last post that you are fraom australia.
    here in europe it is no problem every homeimprovement market has them.

    and we ahve 220 volt
    i think australia has 110 volt ??

    here is a link to the lamp on the austrian site (it has an other name but i think this is the right one)
    http://www.philips.at/c/-/accentcolor-1-w-rot-mit-e27-sockel-g08727900844603/prd/

    write to philips australia maybe they can help you
    i can not fint that lamp on tha australian site

    or try other ones in red. i think the most red leds will work.

    @mattC: i ilford efke rollei (foma) kentmere and all wors very well better the the paterson dukalamp (grays after w view seconds on the rollei papaer -> not so wit he leds)

    the kentmere vc paper i tested for 20 to 30 minutes with no effects to the paper.
    --

    thomas
     
  9. Ken Nadvornick

    Ken Nadvornick Subscriber

    Messages:
    4,784
    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2005
    Location:
    Monroe, WA,
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Yes, they are standard base bulbs ("Edison" base, I think they're called?) that screw into standard sockets. There is a single 0.5-watt red (~630nm) LED in each bulb. The bulb glass (plastic, actually) is itself clear, so you see no color until power is applied.

    I went to a hardware store and picked up six inexpensive small plastic sockets (these bulbs generate virtually no significant heat), mounted and wired them side-by-side on a 12-inch strip of flat black-painted plywood, and glued some small neodymium magnets to the bottom (from used electric toothbrush heads, I always salvage those as they are incredibly useful).

    I then folded a small sheet of Rubylith cylindrically domed over the top of the strip of bulbs and attached at the ends to curved black vertical cardboard supports. The magnets allow the unit to firmly attach to the top sheet metal center of my Thomas Duplex unit up by the ceiling.

    My small darkroom is now relatively bright red when I use the LEDs, and of course insanely bright orange when I use the Duplex.

    Interestingly, I also managed to perform the same trick with the Duplex by using an inexpensive sheet of Roscoe Roscolux #19 (Fire) filter material as a cutoff filter.* The emission spectra for a low-pressure sodium vapor lamp includes numerous additional spikes in the blue and green portions of the spectrum. You don't see them with your eyes, but the photo paper sees them. Get rid of them and you can significantly increase the safety of the safelight.

    This is why many people complain that the Duplexes are "way too bright and fog my paper" no matter what they do. It's not the intensity of the sodium emission doublet, providing your paper is Kodak OC safe in the first place. It's the additional blue/green emission spikes at that high intensity. Add a cutoff filter of the right transmission wavelength and the fogging all but disappears.

    When I was using Kentmere Bromide graded papers I was able to leave the sodium safelight vanes open all the way and preflashed Bromide #2 paper showed no fog out to the 30 minutes I ran the test. I don't know how far it might have gone, but the room was lit up like I was using a standard 100-watt lightbulb.

    That much truly "safe" light is a bit disconcerting and makes you feel uneasy, even though you know it has tested safe. I did find that I had to close down the vanes to compose and focus on the easel as the Duplex safelight completely overwhelmed the projected image.

    Ken

    * See the technical data sheet for this filter here. The transmission graph demonstrates why this material is so effective as a cutoff filter for the higher frequency blue and green spikes. I looked at all of the possibilities and this color was the best choice.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 18, 2011
  10. 2F/2F

    2F/2F Member

    Messages:
    8,005
    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2008
    Location:
    Los Angeles,
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Hi,

    You can put a sub-$5 (U.S.) red darkroom bulb into any household lamp or wall/ceiling fixture that takes screw-base bulbs. Short of ruby-lithing a bulb you already have, it is the cheapest way. It also couldn't get much easier.
     
  11. Ken Nadvornick

    Ken Nadvornick Subscriber

    Messages:
    4,784
    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2005
    Location:
    Monroe, WA,
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Just curious 2F...

    Have you ever closely examined the output from this class of bulbs? I know when I did I found evidence of noticeable blue, green and other wavelengths leaking through or around those bulb's red paint and/or glass tinting.

    Try looking at the bulb's reflection on the business side of a CD disc. That's also how I discovered the blue light coming from the red LEDs. I now make this simple check for all of the electronics in my darkroom that sport "red" indicator lights.

    The worst offenders get opened up and have small squares of Rubylith applied. A few minutes spent and they then become completely safe for life.

    It's also possible that the safelight bulbs to which you refer have been improved since my last look. And admittedly most people will not need 60 minutes of safe exposure. Often 5 minutes or so is sufficient for them.

    But its nice to know there is no voodoo involved, and the situation can be easily discovered and mitigated.

    Ken
     
  12. brucemuir

    brucemuir Member

    Messages:
    2,266
    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2007
    Location:
    Metro DC are
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Ken,
    excellent idea about the CD test.

    So are you saying roscoe "fire" is good to cut blue & green and rubylith is good if you only need to cut blue?

    I admit I don't fully understand wavelength & filtering yet but am getting there.
     
  13. Ken Nadvornick

    Ken Nadvornick Subscriber

    Messages:
    4,784
    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2005
    Location:
    Monroe, WA,
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Hi Bruce,

    Both will block transmission of blue and green. The difference is where in the visible spectrum they begin to allow transmission.

    The Roscoe #19 Fire begins transmitting in the orange/amber region, also allowing everything lower in frequency (such as red) to pass. Since sodium orange is the color we really want from a Duplex (and nothing higher such as greens and blues) this material is a good match.

    The Rubylith doesn't begin transmitting until you get down to red. It blocks everything higher than red, including orange/amber. Since the LEDs are mostly red to begin with, it doesn't matter that the material also blocks orange/amber. It's the red we really want.

    The reason for choosing the Roscoe for the sodium light source is that it largely passes the desirable orange/amber, while the Rubylith does not. Using Rubylith on the sodium would unnecessarily darken the orange/amber output for no additional benefit, as both filters equally remove the undesirable greens and blues.

    Ken
     
  14. brucemuir

    brucemuir Member

    Messages:
    2,266
    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2007
    Location:
    Metro DC are
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Ken,
    thanks for that.
    I need to really study the spectrum so I can recall it and the relationships.

    I remember I hopelessly guessed when this came up on a color theory exam once a few years back.

    I am finally digesting CMY but that took me awhile also.
     
  15. 2F/2F

    2F/2F Member

    Messages:
    8,005
    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2008
    Location:
    Los Angeles,
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Hi, Ken.

    No, I have not closely examined the red lights, but they are pretty much all I have used until a week ago when I got a Thomas safelight with bona-fide filters. The only fogging I have had was from my cracked Brownie 0C safelight. I used to use it and the red lamps, but when it cracked and started fogging things, I just tossed it and went to all red. I get them at Freestyle; I'm not talking about "Halloween" lamps from the drug store.
     
  16. patricia de roeck

    patricia de roeck Member

    Messages:
    99
    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2006
    Location:
    Tasmania, Au
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    Hi - went on the same quest about a month ago re bayonet dark red 'proper' darkroom bulbs - finally found some at Fotoriesel, Kent St. Sydney. phone 0292998833. Hope you're in Sydney and can go to their shop and pick them up - they're not listed on their product list on their website and so far I've had no luck getting them to post me a couple to Tassie..even though they confirmed they had heaps of them...good luck!
    Trish in Tassie
     
  17. SkipA

    SkipA Member

    Messages:
    604
    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2002
    Location:
    127.0.0.1
    Shooter:
    Multi Format

    How about Rosculux #27 Medium Red?

    Edit: Sorry. Nevermind. You answered that in post #13. I should read the whole thread before posting.