Anyone use Paterson 5 reel dev tanks?

Discussion in 'Color: Film, Paper, and Chemistry' started by perkeleellinen, Feb 28, 2010.

  1. perkeleellinen

    perkeleellinen Member

    Messages:
    2,258
    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2008
    Location:
    Warwickshire
    Shooter:
    35mm
    I'm thinking about these big 5 reel tanks.

    I want to start C41 processing and the idea of developing 5 rolls at once appeals. Does anyone use one of the 5 reel tanks?

    I'm concerned about the time it takes to fill them with chemicals and time it takes to empty them. The C41 process is short, would a 5 reel tank imply that the bottom films get over developed or the top ones underdeveloped?

    I'd like to hear any thoughts.
     
  2. hrst

    hrst Member

    Messages:
    1,300
    Joined:
    May 10, 2007
    Location:
    Finland
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    You can eliminate the filling time problem by first filling the tank with developer and putting the films there in the dark as quickly as possible.

    However, if you can fill it normally in 10 seconds or less, it's probably ok.

    You need quite a lot chemistry, anyway. If you develop this much films, consider using rotary equipment and doing one-shot.
     
  3. frobozz

    frobozz Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,363
    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2010
    Location:
    Mundelein, I
    Shooter:
    35mm
    I figure the extra time that the bottom reels sit in the developer while filling is balanced out by the shorter time they spend in developer when emptying. As long as you fill and empty at about the same rate, should be all good?

    Duncan
     
  4. Q.G.

    Q.G. Inactive

    Messages:
    5,682
    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2007
    Location:
    Netherlands
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    Nope.

    The top part has to wait for the fluid level to reach all the way up.
    The bottom part, though not immersed, remains wet while the fluids drain out.
     
  5. frobozz

    frobozz Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,363
    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2010
    Location:
    Mundelein, I
    Shooter:
    35mm
    OK, fair enough, but the top part also stays wet once everything is drained out, and then the bottom gets the stop bath first while the top waits? I've done a lot of multi-reel tank work in my time and never had an issue (though admittedly it's been B&W with longer dev times, so not as critical.)

    Duncan
     
  6. RalphLambrecht

    RalphLambrecht Subscriber

    Messages:
    8,213
    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2003
    Location:
    Florida
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Duncan is right. As long as one stays consistent and the fill time is roughly equal to the drain time, there is nothing to worry about.
     
  7. PhotoJim

    PhotoJim Member

    Messages:
    2,223
    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2005
    Location:
    Regina, SK,
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I use the 5- and 8-reel tanks from time to time (although with black-and-white processes only) and I've not had to compensate in time when using the larger tanks versus small tanks.
     
  8. Larry Dawson

    Larry Dawson Member

    Messages:
    6
    Joined:
    May 15, 2006
    Shooter:
    35mm RF
    I use them for 35mm, but the label on them reads "Vivitar" otherwise, no difference
     
  9. ozphoto

    ozphoto Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,320
    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2006
    Location:
    Bangkok, Tha
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I too have used the 5 reel for B&W processing and have never noticed any changes between the bottom roll and the top one. As others have stated, if your fill and empty times are consistent, you shouldn't have any problems.
     
  10. perkeleellinen

    perkeleellinen Member

    Messages:
    2,258
    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2008
    Location:
    Warwickshire
    Shooter:
    35mm
    Thanks for all the replies. Just noticed Paterson also make an eight reel tank - I doubt if I could fit that into my changing bag.

    I'll have to do some thinking about the economics of all this as the 5-reel tank needs 1500ml of fluid to cover completely.
     
  11. RalphLambrecht

    RalphLambrecht Subscriber

    Messages:
    8,213
    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2003
    Location:
    Florida
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Consider a hand rotation process! Cuts down enormously on chemicals.
     
  12. perkeleellinen

    perkeleellinen Member

    Messages:
    2,258
    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2008
    Location:
    Warwickshire
    Shooter:
    35mm
  13. benOM

    benOM Member

    Messages:
    20
    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2009
    Location:
    uk, the shir
    Shooter:
    35mm
    I've got a paterson hand rotation print tank that I want to use for film, that should take 5 reels ( it was about £8 on ebay). You just need to replace the top with a normal paterson film top and put in a 5 reel light trap tube to hold the spools.

    This sort of thing, should be able to find one cheaper but it's the only picture I could find.
    http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/PATERSON-8x10...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item19b9b1bf8b
     
  14. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

    Messages:
    18,040
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2004
    Location:
    West Midland
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I've used these tanks since their release in the late 60's or early 70's, I don't recommend the 5 reel for colour work at all. It's not possible to pour the dev etc in & out fast enough with the short 3min 15sec time needed, I also have an 8 reel tank.

    My suggestion is the 3 x35mm (2x120) tanks these are much more suitable. Or a Jobo rotary system as they use less chemistry anyway.

    Ian
     
  15. Mike Wilde

    Mike Wilde Member

    Messages:
    2,936
    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2006
    Location:
    Misissauaga
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I use the '5 reel' tank for 2 reels set for 120/220 roll film when my stainless set is tied up with other things. Two roll film wide reels need only 1L of chemistry, and this is the size I normally mix c-41 up in.

    The other nice thing the Paterson reels are good for is their ability to load one 120 roll on after another (pratice first on scrap films (you do save scrap films, right?)). Double loading 120 lets me run 4-120's in one litre of c-41, somehting I cannot do wih the stainless tank and reels.

    I do this processing in a dip and dunk style, lifting the spindle off and dipping it into a jug of stop, and then rinse tank and pour in bleach while the spindle is in the dark in the stop bath jug.
     
  16. perkeleellinen

    perkeleellinen Member

    Messages:
    2,258
    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2008
    Location:
    Warwickshire
    Shooter:
    35mm
    Now this is interesting. I've got loads of 12 exp Agfa film that I want to use but I resent having to pay the same at the lab for developing 12 exposures as for 36 exposures. I always wondered, could I load two or three 12 exp films onto one reel. It seems like this is possible. Is it easy to 'wind on' the film once it's passed the ball bearings at the start of the reel?
     
  17. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

    Messages:
    18,040
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2004
    Location:
    West Midland
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    You cant load 3 120's on one reel as tats far longer than a 36ex 35mm film/

    some people load 120's back to back, but it's a bad idea, but in theory you could load 4 120's onto a Paterson spiral. I value my films and stick to one per reel :D

    Ian
     
  18. perkeleellinen

    perkeleellinen Member

    Messages:
    2,258
    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2008
    Location:
    Warwickshire
    Shooter:
    35mm
    Ooh, I should have mentioned that the 12 exp films are 35mm.
     
  19. Mike Wilde

    Mike Wilde Member

    Messages:
    2,936
    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2006
    Location:
    Misissauaga
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I have done short 35mm add ons as well. I do this for my 35mm stuff as quality control.

    I take a film, set up a grey card, a color control card from a Kodak color darkroom dataguide, and persuade my wife to stand in front of the house on a cloud free day holding said cards.

    I meter, set camera on matching manual exposure, bolt tripod tight and wind off about 72 exposures over a couple of rolls as a constant.

    Then for each batch of c-41 I mix (I home brew this from base chemicals) I snip another 4" or so off one of these test rolls and add it onto a roll I am developing. For a long while I was/still am working my way thorough 100 rolls of Agfa Vista in 27 exposure lengths, so there is lots of room.

    I have used masking tape, but recommend splurging and buying film splicing tape. Mine is called Blue Max. It sticks to film base very well, but is not too sticky on anything else. My roll was $20, but I use it 1" at a time, so I have a lifetime supply.

    Practice with scrap films (see, there I go again) Keep track on where the the end of the film is as you load, and before it gets to the ball bearing gate lay the film tail down further back on the reel on the outside of the spiral, and then lay the new film to overlap by a 1/4" or so. Using the reel as an alignment template helps the film to go on in line in the dark. If it gets half way in and binds, you can undo and re-stick the take if using blue max. I fold a little corner over when prepping the tape in the light to do this. With the corner to tug with a finger nail you can make ginger adjustments. If you get really stuck, cup the film like loading a stianelss steel reel, and wiggle it past the ball bearing areas where it tends to snag when loading without the ball bearings.

    Trim the tag along film so the corners are chamfered, and the cut is square. Square corners tend to snag if not perfectly aligned.

    If you are not filling the reel, load the first short film, and push it along the spirals until it hits the core. Then start to load the second short film. There will be a length of spiral empty betwen the two films, and no need to tape on. I tape on because a 4" long film chip ends up coming off the reel and scratching itself and the films in with it if it is not tacked onto the reel in front of it. I have even taped onto and then had the chip dangle betwen the reel outside and the tank inside when I have a bit of a long bulk loaded '36' exposure film to process. The edges ge scratched, but I can still read the density of the grey card and colour of the test patches with the densitometer to judge if the fresh bathc of chems is similar to that which came before it..
     
  20. perkeleellinen

    perkeleellinen Member

    Messages:
    2,258
    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2008
    Location:
    Warwickshire
    Shooter:
    35mm
    Thanks, Mike. As it happens I got a bulk loader yesterday (for £2.50!) and it's got a load of film in it. The previous owner thinks it's at least 20 years old, so I'm going to use that for practising short length loading on my spools.