Anyone with experince of Angulon 210/6.8?

Discussion in 'Large Format Cameras and Accessories' started by Jesper, Oct 7, 2013.

  1. Jesper

    Jesper Subscriber

    Messages:
    743
    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2009
    Location:
    Sweden
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I like the old Angulon 6.8 lenses. Nice images and small size and I'm using 90, 120 and 165 since before. Now I've bought not one but two (mistakes happen) 210/6.8 without shutters. Mounting one of them into a shutter will be an expensive affair (I was looking at the price list at S K Grimes) so I'm trying to see if it will be worth the cost. The main problem for me is that I get different numbers for the coverage. One site lists them at 362mm at f22 and an old Schneider catalogue claims that they cover 12"x15" at f22 (480mm) which is a quite different coverage.
    Anyone out there with an actual experience of using one of these on 8x10?
     
  2. E. von Hoegh

    E. von Hoegh Member

    Messages:
    3,925
    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2011
    Location:
    Adirondacks
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    It will cover 8x10 with some - not a lot- of movement. The specified coverage of Angulons, like their close relative the Dagor, is open to interpretation. An IC of 480mm is probably extremely optimistic, but may work out for contact prints. Your best bet is to try it out. I'd test both of your examples; there is an innermost element of each cell that is supported by the balsam only and if the lens has been stored on it's side in a warm environment for an extended period of time it's possible for this element to shift.
     
  3. Jesper

    Jesper Subscriber

    Messages:
    743
    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2009
    Location:
    Sweden
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Thanks for the advice. Both lenses seem to be in good condition but since they are without shutter, or any means of mounting them on a camera right now I cannot test them. An IC of 480mm does seem like a lot, but the figure is from a Schneider catalogue (I can dream).
    If the attempt to attach a photo to this post there is a picture of one of them (they are both the same). I would like to use one of them but I'm trying to motivate the rather high cost of putting it in a shutter. If the IC is below 400 it is not enough to replace my current 210.
    Angulon210.jpg
     
  4. E. von Hoegh

    E. von Hoegh Member

    Messages:
    3,925
    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2011
    Location:
    Adirondacks
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Ole Tjugens is probaly the Angulon expert, he has more experience with diffeternt vintages of that lens than I do.

    You can almost certainly find one already mounted in a shutter for less than it will cost to mount one of yours, they are not uncommon.
     
  5. Dan Fromm

    Dan Fromm Member

    Messages:
    4,134
    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2005
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Per Schneider (see https://www.schneideroptics.com/inf...rge_format_lenses/angulon/data/6,8-210mm.html ) the 210/6.8 Angulon's cells are direct fits in a #3 tube 7 shutter. I think this means a Compound. The next larger size is a Compur/Copal #3, then a Compound #4. See http://www.suaudeau.eu/memo/pratique/Les_obturateurs_centraux.html

    Have you asked Skgrimes for an estimate? I ask because if you can find the right shutter the only additional expense will be the correct scale for the aperture, and having an aperture scaled isn't very expensive. The big expense will be the shutter. Finding one will be a large headache.
     
  6. ic-racer

    ic-racer Member

    Messages:
    7,470
    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2007
    Location:
    Midwest USA
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I used a Angulon 210mm and was quite excited to find a perfect specimen mounted on a Copal 3. However, after a few years of use on 8x10 film, I did change over to the 80 degree Fujinon 210mm. The Angulon was always noticeably blurry at the corners when enlarged to 16x20. The Fujinon 210mm is much, much sharper in the corners and has plenty of room for movements on a field camera. My impression is that the Angulon 210mm is more for the 'contact printing' crowd.

    I did a lot of testing with the 210mm Angulon and found the blurry corners were caused by a concave field of focus. I experimented with lens spacing ,but the best compromise for landscape was obtained using the lens spacing specified by Schneider (48mm overall length).
    mounting8.jpg
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 7, 2013
  7. LJH

    LJH Member

    Messages:
    712
    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2008
    Location:
    Australia
    Shooter:
    ULarge Format
    Are you sure that the 480mm IC was for the Angulon, and not the Super Angulon?
     
  8. Jesper

    Jesper Subscriber

    Messages:
    743
    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2009
    Location:
    Sweden
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Thanks all. I have checked with S K Grimes but a shutter is +$1100 and that is just the shutter and postage and work is extra. That is unfortunately right out for the moment.
    ic-racer, what you say is interesting. The 210 I'm using right now is a Fuji 210/5.6W and that has a little too small IC so that is why I'm looking for another lens. Maybe I should stick with this one (but I do like the Angulons)
    LJH, It is not the Super Angulon but the standard Angulon. The IC can be found at Camera eccentric in a catalogue from 1934 (no super angulons available yet), but I must say that I'm a bit suspicious of the coverage.
     
  9. LJH

    LJH Member

    Messages:
    712
    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2008
    Location:
    Australia
    Shooter:
    ULarge Format
    What about an 8 1/4" Dagor? These are often on shutters, and EASILY cover 8x10.

    +1.
     
  10. ic-racer

    ic-racer Member

    Messages:
    7,470
    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2007
    Location:
    Midwest USA
    Shooter:
    Multi Format

    I think the next step up from the Fujinon 210 would be either the Super Symmar XL or Super Angulon. The Super Symmar HM is an 80 degree lens like the Fujinon and would not provide additional coverage.

    The 'light' circle projected by the Angulon is indeed very large. The corners are just clipping with my camera like this. However, the sides of the bellows show, so, without a bag bellows, the camera is not usable in such extreme conditions. Are you using a monorail 8x10 or do you have a bag bellows?
    mounting7.jpg
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 7, 2013
  11. Jesper

    Jesper Subscriber

    Messages:
    743
    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2009
    Location:
    Sweden
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I have some Super Angulons with the 165/8 as the longest (not to say the heaviest). A very good lens in all respects except for portability which is what I'm looking for with this one. I will take a look at the Dagor. Maybe that could be a solution (and maybe I don't need every single focal length in at least two different lenses and I should just settle for the Fuji).
    The camera I'm using is a Wista 810. A field camera with fixed bellows so no bag bellows.

    Thanks for all the help.
     
  12. Ole

    Ole Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    9,281
    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2002
    Location:
    Bergen, Norw
    Shooter:
    Large Format
    The definition of "coverage" has changed a bit over the years. So did the lenses, old ones are less sharp around the center but a bit better in the corners. Newer ones have a larger field of "modern sharp" but fall off a lot faster toward what WAS the edges.

    I have a photo somewhere taken with a 210mm Angulon with full rise on a Gandolfi 10x8"; the top is definitely fuzzy but not too bad for a contact print.

    Here it is! http://www.apug.org/gallery1/showimage.php?i=26023&catid=member&imageuser=124
     
  13. karl

    karl Subscriber

    Messages:
    199
    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2003
    Location:
    SanFrancisco
    Shooter:
    ULarge Format
  14. Jesper

    Jesper Subscriber

    Messages:
    743
    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2009
    Location:
    Sweden
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I had just about given up on using mine. Perhaps I need to rethink that and try to put it into a shutter. I really like my other angulons but it will be expensive but seems to be worth it.
    Thanks for all the input.
     
  15. karl

    karl Subscriber

    Messages:
    199
    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2003
    Location:
    SanFrancisco
    Shooter:
    ULarge Format
    You're much better off finding a clean one already in a shutter. I did have to have the compound shutter serviced on mine after I purchased it though. So, my total investment between the lens and servicing the shutter is around $450.
     
  16. Jesper

    Jesper Subscriber

    Messages:
    743
    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2009
    Location:
    Sweden
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    It would perhaps be cheaper, but I haven't found one yet. I'll keep looking since I don't have the funds for the moment to let S K Grimes work on one of mine.
     
  17. ic-racer

    ic-racer Member

    Messages:
    7,470
    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2007
    Location:
    Midwest USA
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    The above posted image "Mare Island - Long View" is a good example of how objects are rendered in the upper corners with the Angulon 210mm. The sky on the RIGHT is fine, but the bricks in the upper LEFT corner are not sharp. This is very typical of that lens. Of course, depending on your shooting style, you may want that softness in the corners rather than the sharpness of the Fujinon.
     
  18. karl

    karl Subscriber

    Messages:
    199
    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2003
    Location:
    SanFrancisco
    Shooter:
    ULarge Format
    You're tempting me to try the old Fuji 210. I do quite like the 'character' of the 210 Angulon. It compares quite favorably to the 8 1/4 Dagor I was previously using as a gentle wide angle for 8x10. There was a time a I was using a 210 G-Claron as well. But it's been so long I can really remember how the corner sharpness was with that lens.
     
  19. Jesper

    Jesper Subscriber

    Messages:
    743
    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2009
    Location:
    Sweden
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    The Fuji is very sharp but I often find myself wanting a little more IC and I've also come to like single coated lenses for some landscapes. I do have a single coated Symmar but movement is restricted.
     
  20. Neil Poulsen

    Neil Poulsen Member

    Messages:
    231
    Joined:
    May 28, 2005
    Shooter:
    4x5 Format
    How does one recognize or find this 210mm Fuji W? Does it have a special maximum aperture, like the f6.7 250mm lens? Very curious.
     
  21. Dan Fromm

    Dan Fromm Member

    Messages:
    4,134
    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2005
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
  22. Jesper

    Jesper Subscriber

    Messages:
    743
    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2009
    Location:
    Sweden
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    The one I use is the Fuji 210/5.6W wiith an IC of 352mm. It is a sharp lens that I use a lot, but the IC is 352 so there is not a lot of movement on 8x10. I can recommend it.
    It is not that hard to find one and the price is OK.
     
  23. ic-racer

    ic-racer Member

    Messages:
    7,470
    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2007
    Location:
    Midwest USA
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Letters around the inside of the lens, rather than on the outside.