APO Germinars & Germinar-Ws - Any Interest

Discussion in 'Large Format Cameras and Accessories' started by ReallyBigCameras, Nov 30, 2005.

  1. ReallyBigCameras

    ReallyBigCameras Advertiser Advertiser

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    Earlier this year, I sold several 150mm Germinar-W, 240mm Germinar-W and 300mm APO Germinar lenses here on APUG. The lenses seemed to be very well received and I am happy to say that well over half of all the lenses sold went to APUG subscribers. In fact, after all of the lenses were sold, I had several people contact me to see if more lenses were available.

    I now have an opportunity to get more of these lenses, as well as a VERY, VERY limited number of longer (600mm, 750mm and 1000mm) APO Germinars. I can also get a few shutter mounted 210mm f4.5 Docter Optics Tessars as well.

    Before I go to the trouble of having these lenses sent to me from their owner in Germany, I want to assess the interest from members of the APUG community. This is not an offer to sell any of these lenses at this time. Prices for the longer lenses have not yet been determined, but I expect them to be very attractive for new lenses of such long focal length and asociated big coverage. I suspect the prices for the 150mm Germinar-W, 240mm Germinar-W and 300mm APO Germinar will be about the same as they were perviously (see links above). At this point, all I am tying to do is determine if there is enough of a market for these lenses to go to the trouble and expense of having them shipped to me to re-package and distribute to members of the APUG community.

    So, if you have any interest in buying any of these lenses:

    150mm f9 Germinar-W
    240mm f9 Germinar-W
    300mm f9 APO Germinar Cell Sets
    600mm f9 APO Germinar in Barrel
    750mm f9 APO Germinar in Barrel
    1000mm f12 APO Germinar in Barrel
    210mm f4.5 Docter Tessar in Copal No. 3 Shutter

    Please post here or send me a PM. Also, comments from previous purchasers of the 150mm Germinar-W, 240mm Germinar-W and 300mm APO Germinar lenses I sold here earlier this year are welcome. Keep in mind your responses are in no way a firm commitment to buy anything. No deposits will be taken and no pecking order asigned. If I do decide to proceed, I will place listings in the classifieds with all the details and pricing only after I have the lenses in my possession and they will be sold on a first-come-first-seved basis.

    All these lenses are new, unused as they left the Docter Optics factory. It should be noted that the 150mm Germinar-W and 240mm Germinar-W lenses come in barrels, but the cells screw directly into standard Compur and Copal shutters. The 300mm APO Germinars come as factory-matched cell sets and they also are a direct fit in standard Copal/Compur No. 1 shutters. The 210mm Tessars come in Copal No. 3 shutters. The 600mm, 750mm and 1000mm APO Germinars come in very heavy barrel mounts, the cells are difficult to remove and mounting them in shutters would require both a very big shutter as well as much expensive custom machine work. They are best used in their original barrels with either a large behind the lens shutter (such as a Packard or Compur No. 5 Electric), a front mounted shutter (such as a LUC) or with a lens caps or felt hat for the long exposures typical when shooting ULF formats. Due to the weight, they require a camera with a sturdy front standard and they are not suitable for backpacking or carrying long distances from the vehicle (unlike the 150mm Germinar W, 240mm Germinar-W and 300mm APO Germinar, which are all small, light and perfect for backpacking/hiking).

    So, if you're interested, let me know. I'll tally the response over the next week or so and make a decision.

    Thanks,
    Kerry
     
  2. gandolfi

    gandolfi Member

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    wow
    well... IF one was interested - would you then get the lenses from Germany to USA, and then re-transport them here to Denmark, Europe?...
     
  3. Guillaume Zuili

    Guillaume Zuili Subscriber

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    I have for years an Apo-Germinar W 240 in Copal 3. I use it for 8x10 with a lot of coverage.
    I can only say that these lenses are outstanding.

    What would be the price range of the long lenses ?
     
  4. Tom Hoskinson

    Tom Hoskinson Member

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    Hi Kerry! I sent you a PM about the Tessar.

    my 300mm Apo Germinar is on its way back from Steve Grimes (fstop engraving). Can't wait to try it out.

    I've been shooting the 150mm Germinar W on my 2.25X3.25 Crown Graphic - Efke 100 and some chromes - it is really a superb lens!

    Tom
     
  5. Sal Santamaura

    Sal Santamaura Member

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    I'm extremely pleased with the 150mm (using on 4x5 and 5x7) and 240mm (using on 8x10) Germinar-Ws you sold me. Unfortunately, it doesn't appear that your source has come up with any 210mm Germinar-Ws, which would be the only additional Docter Optics lens of interest (for use on 5x7).
     
  6. colrehogan

    colrehogan Member

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    Kerry,
    What is the coverage on the 210 mm Tessar compared to the 210 G-Claron (or do you have any idea)?
     
  7. Chazzy

    Chazzy Member

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    Actually, I was thinking about getting a process lens for copy work, so this is good timing. I'm not sure whether I would want the 150mm or the 240mm Germinar-W. So I'm interested, but I can't promise anything definite.
     
  8. Richard Wasserman

    Richard Wasserman Member

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    Kerry,
    I'm interested in a 600mm Apo Germinar. Do you know its approximate weight and cost? I bought a 300mm Apo Germinar a few years ago that I use as a long lens on 4x5 and it's great. I've been using the 240 Germinar W that i got from you on 8x10 where it performs brilliantly. I'm hoping to use it on a 7x17 camera that Richard Ritter is curently building for me. As soon as I receive it I'll try the lens-I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it will cover.

    Richard Wasserman
     
  9. ReallyBigCameras

    ReallyBigCameras Advertiser Advertiser

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    No problem. I'll ship to anyone willing to pay for insured Global EMS shipping. Many of the lenses I sold previously went to non-US APUGers.

    Kerry
     
  10. ReallyBigCameras

    ReallyBigCameras Advertiser Advertiser

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    Sal,

    No 210mm Germinar-Ws, just plenty of the 240s.

    Kerry
     
  11. ReallyBigCameras

    ReallyBigCameras Advertiser Advertiser

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    Diane,

    The Tessar will have substantially less coverage than a G Claron of the same focal length. Tessars not not generally known for their coverage. Typical Tessar-type lenses cover about 55 - 60 degrees. A 210mm Tessar will cover 5x7, but not have a lot left over for movements.

    Kerry
     
  12. ReallyBigCameras

    ReallyBigCameras Advertiser Advertiser

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    Guillaume,

    I don't have any pricing info on the longer lenses at this time.

    Kerry
     
  13. Ole

    Ole Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    A 600mm would do nicely on the 30x40cm camera...
     
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  15. ReallyBigCameras

    ReallyBigCameras Advertiser Advertiser

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    Richard,

    According to Arne Corell's table the weight of the 600mm f9 APO Germinar is 2350g - over 5 lbs. As I said, not for backpacking or hiking any significant distance. The barrel mounts these lenses come in are very heavy and bulky. They can be remounted into shutters, which will actually reduce the weight in bulk in this case, but the work required (and associated cost) is significant. There are photos of 750mm APO Germinars on the S.K. Grimes web site that show this lens both in a barrel mount with a Packard shutter (a more cost effective approach) and re-mounted into an Ilex No. 5 shutter (a more elegant, but more costly approach).

    The good news is the 600mm should cover 7x17 with some room left over for movements. No idea on the prices, yet.

    Kerry
     
  16. ReallyBigCameras

    ReallyBigCameras Advertiser Advertiser

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    I have been informed that the actual weight of the barrel mount 600mm APO Germinar is approximatey 1880g - or a touch over 4 lbs. Still not an ultralight, but a full pound lighter than the "official" spec.

    Kerry
     
  17. Ole

    Ole Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Shouldn't be any problem on the 30x40cm camera, then - that's about the same as my 60cm Aplanat.

    So it all depends on price.
     
  18. Alexz

    Alexz Member

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    Kerry, just wondering how much would cost the total your Germinar 240mm (or 300mm APO) togather with purchasing a necessary Copal shutter (presumably new) and having it engraved accordingly ?
    BTW, I guess 300mm non tele lens will unlikely to work on Shen-Hao 4x5 or similar folders (due to maximum bellows extention limitation). Am I wrong ?
     
  19. BradS

    BradS Subscriber

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    Alex,
    I visited the Badger Graphic website and found that the Shen HZX-IIA has a maximum bellows extension of 360mm. With a little bit of math it is easy to find that with this much bellows, one could focus a 300mm lens (of normal design) as close as about 1.8 meters.

    (1/focal length) = (1/object distance) + (1/image distance)
    rearranging ...
    (1/object distance) = (1/focal length) - (1/image distance)
    or,
    object distance = 1 / ( (1/focal length) - (1/image distance) )

    and substituting in known values, we have at once...

    object distance = 1 / ((1/300) - (1/360))
    = 1 / ((6/1800) - (5/1800))
    = 1 / (1/1800) = 1800mm
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 1, 2005
  20. BradS

    BradS Subscriber

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    Oh....Kerry, I am mildly interested in one of the 240mm Geminars but much more interested inthe 210 Tessar in shutter. It will come down to price and timing.
     
  21. ReallyBigCameras

    ReallyBigCameras Advertiser Advertiser

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    Alex,

    The prices for the 240mm and 300mm will likely be very close to what they were previously (see the links in my original post for all the details). They might vary slightly due to fluctuating exchange rates, shipping costs and other fees, but they should be in the same ballpark.

    As for the shutter and aperture scale costs, I'll leave that to the folks at SK Grimes. When I sold the previous lenses, several APUG members worked out a deal with SK Grimes for a "bulk purchase" of aperture scales. Again, the details are in the previous threads I linked in my original post. I believe the folks at SK Grimes have all the data for producing the proper aperture scales. So, you would not even have to ship them your lens(es). Just call them up and order a shutter and/or aperture scales.

    Brad already answered your question on using a 300mm non-telephoto on the Shen-Hao. I tested a Shen-Hao back when Badger first started importing them. I was able to use it with a 300mm Nikkor M (a non-telephoto). I do recall I had to use a combination of base and axis tilts to get the desired extension, but the 300mm APO Germinar (like the 300mm Nikkor M) is very light for a lens of this focal length and should not put any excessive burden on the front standard of the She-Hao (or other similar wooden field cameras).

    Kerry
     
  22. ReallyBigCameras

    ReallyBigCameras Advertiser Advertiser

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    Brad,

    Once I know, I'll post pricing and availability information. In the past, my supplier has been very generous in setting his prices low enough that his lenses are considered a good deal to those who buy them. I expect this trend to continue.

    Kerry
     
  23. tdeming

    tdeming Subscriber

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    Hi Kerry,

    I'm potentially interested in a 240 and a 600, if the price is right


    Tim
     
  24. BradS

    BradS Subscriber

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    Thanks Kerry. I noted that the prices in you previous offering were very attractive. I just didn't have the money at the time.
     
  25. ReallyBigCameras

    ReallyBigCameras Advertiser Advertiser

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    I'd also like to call on the collective wisdom of the APUG membership regarding the coverage of the 600mm and 750mm APO Germinars. Thanks to Arne and his articles on these lenses I know what the official specs are. I know that based on these specs the 600mm will cover 7x17 with some left over for movements, but just miss the corners of 8x20 and that the 750mm should cover 12x20 with about an inch or so left over for front rise/shift. However, it has been my experience with other lenses originally targeted at the demanding reprographics industry (APO Artars, APO Ronars, G Clarons, etc.) that the official specs are often very conservative. Those using these lenses for pictorial use (usually involving some type of contact printing) often find they cover considerably more than the official spec would indicate.

    So, if anyone has any first hand knowledge of the actual usable coverage of the 600mm and 750mm APO Germinars, please share your experiences here. I don't want to oversell the capbilities of these lenses, but I also don't want any 8x20 or 12x20 users to pass on them due to overly conservative manufacturers specs.

    Thanks,
    Kerry
     
  26. blaze-on

    blaze-on Member

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    A potential interest at this point in either the 600 or 750.
    Once price is available I can increase my potential to possible.
    Thanks Kerry

    Matt