APX film - what's the future?

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by pierods, Jul 29, 2011.

  1. pierods

    pierods Member

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    2 years ago I was very surprised to find a new film (new for me...), the apx 100 and 400, available for sale, in grey packaging for both speeds.

    I fell in love right away.

    Unfortunately I could not shoot for 2 years (life can be cruel that way...) and, lo and behold, no apx any more!

    To be precise: apx 100 is still sold, but only by fotoimpex. apx 400 is dead and fotoimpex/adox says we will make it again, under a different name.

    To confuse matters further, macodirect sells an "apx equivalent".

    Can somebody be kind enough to tell me:

    - what film is really the same of the apx 100 and 400 that I bought in the grey boxes

    - how long the apx 100 in the grey boxes will still be around, now that they have discontinued the apx 400

    - how "equivalent" are the macodirect ones.

    - how long we can hope all of these things to be around

    Many thanks.
     

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  2. Gerald C Koch

    Gerald C Koch Member

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    The APX films were made by Agfa. I agree they were excellent. When Agfa ceased its photographic business, their stock of film both cut and in the form of uncut rolls was sold. The amount of film in the uncut rolls was extensive but when it is sold then that's the end. I don't know if Agfa sold the rights to its emulsion technology. So perhaps another company might duplicate these films.

    Agfa was a top tier manufacturer along with Kodak, Ilford, and Fuji. Even if some else has the emulsion formula I would seriously doubt that a new product would be as good.
     
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  3. cmo

    cmo Member

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    Today? The apx 100 and 400 that I bought in the grey boxes. Period. Everything else is just marketing bla (read: lies, unfair competition, plain BS).

    No idea, but it seems there are still many films in the storehouses. They are still available, and they are pretty cheap - well, 35mm only.

    Based on facts or from a 'marketing point of view'?

    A company in Germany purchased some Agfa machines and promises to restart production as "Adox Pan" films. So far, they made a first coating, ISO 400 film only, and it's sold out. Since then... calm is the sea.

    PS, futur(ama) will tell you more about marketing for films:

    [video=youtube;W84DLa0CLNE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W84DLa0CLNE[/video]
     
  4. JMC1969

    JMC1969 Subscriber

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    At one time there was a long thread about the start up of re-making these films, but I just can come up with it. I thought it was in my subscriptions, apparently not. Seems like it started a year ago or so and recently posted within the last couple of weeks.
     
  5. Thomas Bertilsson

    Thomas Bertilsson Subscriber

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    http://www.apug.org/forums/forum249/78063-apx-400-a.html

    And, I should add that I agree with Jerry about the reformulation of this film. Just because you have the emulsion recipe and a coating line doesn't mean that you can automatically make APX 100 and 400 of the same quality and consistency that Agfa could.
     
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  6. JMC1969

    JMC1969 Subscriber

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    AH, Thank You Thomas! I will not loss it again.
     
  7. mablo

    mablo Member

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    Rollei Retro 100 sold by Macodirekt.de is Agfa APX 100 with a different name. If you buy a bulk roll of Rollei Retro 100 you can still read "Agfa APX 100" in the perforation. I've used it for many years and have a nice stockpile at home because it won't last long before it's gone forever.
     
  8. Gerald C Koch

    Gerald C Koch Member

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    One of the essentials is experienced people to run the coating machine. I read of one engineer who could tell if everything was going well just by the sound that the machine made. Coating is done in complete darkness. He would also feel the film edge as it went by. So it's not only technology that can be lost.
     
  9. frobozz

    frobozz Subscriber

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    Forever may already be here... I see no bulk rolls for sale there, just single and twin packs, mostly in boxes of lots of them.

    Duncan
     
  10. mdeutgen

    mdeutgen Member

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    But the APX in the grey boxes is not the same at all!

    It depends on the type of logo which is used on the boxes. As long as the box and the catridge are marked with an orange-red rhomb you have original Agfa Leverkusen films produced AND packed before 2005 closure.

    After that time only the "Agfaphoto" text in association with the 'red seonsor dot' is used this licensed by Agfa Holding (just check a new grey box, if you have one available). From this time on the film produced in 2005 was and still is packed from a company different to AGFA Leverkusen, and to my point of view it does not meet the quality AGFA with the rhomb has delivered all the years. I have an Idea where the are packed into cartridges but I don't want to start rumors at all.

    According to several statements in different german fora MACO has purchased its stocked material (which is sold as "RETRO 100") before the closure of Leverkusen plant.

    Here in Germany you can get APX100 with sensor dot at some durgstores (DM as an example) and at mail order comapnies (I mean the 'usual suspects'). I bought my last box from Fotoimpex at Berlin at the bginning of 2011. But it might be easy to check, wehre these films are still available.

    For me APX100 ist a still great film and I regret that the 120 version is not available any more.

    Martin
     
  11. Diapositivo

    Diapositivo Subscriber

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    My rolls of CN200 (a colour negative) have a label with written "made by Agfa Belgium", Agfa is written with the red rhombus. "Produce and license holder Maco Photo Products". I suppose that Agfa "Belgium" still manufactures films for Maco. Maco runs the enterprise, Agfa acts as a "mere" manufacturer. That might be the case for APX film.

    Agfa Belgium might continue to manufacture it for Maco, presumably with the same recipe, the same coating machine, and so to speak the same personnel as before, just as they manufacture CN200 for Maco.

    The Agfa demise, with various splits, failures etc. make for very complicated right claims about Agfa trademarks. See the confusion concerning Rodinal, which is available with an identical formula (if I get it right) under a different name, and maybe under the same name but with another formula.

    So there might be a film which really is APX100 even though branded in a different way, and there might be a film which is branded APX100 but it is a different product.

    For what I gather we have:

    Agfa-Gevaert, aka Agfa Belgium, which has the rhombus as trademark. site: www.agfa.com. They manufacture film for Maco; They claim in their site that they have nothing to do with AgfaPhoto.

    FAQ n. 11:

    What is the relationship between the Agfa-Gevaert Group and AgfaPhoto?
    Agfa-Gevaert sold its worldwide “Consumer Imaging” business group in 2004 to the AgfaPhoto group of companies (not affiliated with Agfa-Gevaert). In connection with that sale, a Trademark License Agreement, dated November 2, 2004, was entered into between Agfa-Gevaert NV and Agfa-Gevaert NV & Co. KG, as Licensors, and AgfaPhoto Holding GmbH, as Licensee, giving AgfaPhoto Holding GmbH, a German company having its registered office in Cologne, Germany, the right to use and to sublicense the trademark “AgfaPhoto” for products having a photographic application, in accordance with the terms and conditions of the Trademark License Agreement. Agfa-Gevaert declines any liability whatsoever with respect to or in connection with any “AgfaPhoto”-product. Agfa-Gevaert does not manufacture, market, distribute or sell any “AgfaPhoto”-products. Agfa-Gevaert does not provide any service, any support or any product warranty with respect to any “AgfaPhoto”-product. Any request for support or information regarding “AgfaPhoto”-products should be addressed to AgfaPhoto Holding GmbH, www.agfaphoto.com


    (underlining is mine)

    AgfaPhoto, a German firm, unrelated to Agfa-Gevaert. site: www.agfaphoto.com. They have the "red dot" as trademark. They list APX100 and APX400, and Precisa film. I have no idea who manufacture those, but I assume it's not Agfa-Gevaert as per the above quotation. In the specification sheets, AgfaPhoto say "AGFA [rhombus] is used under license from Agfa-Gevaert AG" but was not updated since 2003 (perhaps not by chance). The technical characteristics of film are updated to 1994 and imply manufacturing by Agfa-Gevaert AG, but at that time AgfaPhoto did not exist.

    So Agfa-Gevaert APX100 is probably not any more around under that brand, but can be around as a film produced by Agfa-Gevaert and sold by Maco, just like CN200. AgfaPhoto APX100 is around but it is not produced by Agfa-Gevaert.
     
  12. cmacd123

    cmacd123 Subscriber

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    Amazed that this issue is still so confusing. Agfa-Geveart used to make film at both Leverkusen Germany, and in Belgum. They sold their "consumer business" to a start up and licenced the AGFA Photo name. AgfaPhoto made a large quanity of film, and then sold the German coating plant for the underlying real estate, The Plant was demolished and is no more. Various firms bought some of the equipment, (Including ILFORDS new packaging line.)

    AgfaPhoto went bankrupt and the rights to various products were auctioned off. Agfa Gevaert tried to get the rights to the AgfaPhoto name back but where unsuccessful, hence the rather cold explanation on their web site.

    There was a lot of APX film, mostly in unlabeled bulk rolls at the time Agfa Photo went under. It was sold under several brands, Maco Photo sold it as their RETRO brand.

    Maco also buys various "commercial FIlms" made by Agfa Geveart, Noostly intended for Aerial Photography, and packages then for still photography. Agfa Geveart only makes Film on an Polyester base, and their Colour negative films do not have any Mask (no orange colour) Some of the Black and white films have more red (and Infrared) sensitivity than regular films.

    Another German firm has said that they will make a "replacement" for APX, but the list of "Improvements" they claim means that they are unlikly to make anything that is similar.

    I am down to a dozzen rolls which will likly be gone before the end of the yaer.
     
  13. Diapositivo

    Diapositivo Subscriber

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    Some further information.

    The firm which went bankrupt in May 2005 is AgfaPhoto GmbH. AgfaPhoto Holding GmbH is a "normally alive and kicking" firm in Leverkusen.

    In their site they claim "AgfaPhoto is used under license of Agfa-Gevaert NV & Co. KG or Agfa-Gevaert NV" which means, I suppose, that sooner or later the AgfaPhoto license will expire and it will come back to Agfa-Gevaert. Unless AgfaPhoto can claim some sort of "perpetual" license :confused:

    As an added information, chemicals for film treatment are sold under the brand AgfaPhoto. They are produced according to original AGFA recipes by Connect Chemicals Productions & Services GmbH, which took over the former AGFA plant in Vaihingen in January 2008.

    http://www.agfaphoto.com/appc/conte...D=195068&dbc=8943467bbf994d4f76f9d3b9fbeec6eb

    That means there is another European chemistry producers most of us are unaware of. They might sell products for minilabs only, though.
    They quote a site www.minilabfactory.de which in fact redirects to this site:
    http://www.saal-group.com/
    That seems quite "minilab-oriented". I wish them well.

    This generally begs the question:

    The APX film we see branded AgfaPhoto, is the old film produced by AgfaPhoto GmbH before failure announced in May 2005, or is it some re-branded film produced by somebody else? (We already know it cannot be Agfa-Gevaert anyway).

    AgfaPhoto GmbH went bankrupt in May 2005. Is it possible that this film is 6-years-old stock? The offer includes photographic paper, colour film, disposable cameras. I suppose they re-brand new production produced by somebody else by now.

    Fabrizio
     
  14. railwayman3

    railwayman3 Member

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    Current Agfa Precisa CT100, which I have purchased in the last month, is labelled "Made in Japan".
     
  15. mdeutgen

    mdeutgen Member

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    Same with Afga Vista 200. I just purchased this film in a german Supermarket. The packing is 'Agfa with a red dot'. The plastic container seems to be the same model Fuji uses. And the cartridge carries the phrase "Made in Japan". Any questions to be asked?

    Martin
     
  16. Roger Cole

    Roger Cole Member

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    I still have some 4x5 frozen. I almost hate to thaw it and use it, since I'll never get any more of it. Lovely film.
     
  17. georg16nik

    georg16nik Member

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    On the Retro 100 its says Made in Germany

    Agfa-Gevaert N.V. (Agfa) still manufacture films.., much better than the original APX. Its business-to-business thing, so companies like Rollei are wrapping it in a nice packages for us, so that we can enjoy them:
    Agfa Copex Rapid
    Rollei Retro 80S
    Rollei Retro 400S
    Rollei Infrared 400S
    Rollei ATP
    to name a few
     
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  18. Gim

    Gim Subscriber

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    APX is gone. Get over it. From now on out it is just marketing. It's gone, gone, gone.

    jim
     
  19. hpulley

    hpulley Member

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    The future is the same as other expired and discontinued film at the moment, mostly expensive on the 'bay!
     
  20. tony lockerbie

    tony lockerbie Subscriber

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    Just don't mention APX25!
     
  21. cmo

    cmo Member

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    My momma always said, "Agfa film is like a box of chocolates. You never know what you're gonna get."

    Regarding "successors":

    Everyone loves hypnotoad! (see page 1)
     
  22. Leigh B

    Leigh B Member

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    Why not?

    When APX25 was discontinued I bought up all of the 120 stock I could find in the US, including from the importer.

    I still have an unopened case. Not sure when I'll open it.

    Absolutely wonderful film. Nothing like it since.

    - Leigh
     
  23. Roger Cole

    Roger Cole Member

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    Leigh is right about APX 25. The only way to finer grain was something like Tech Pan and APX 25 was much easier to use. It was just too slow for me and I didn't really need grain that fine. But if you did and could live with the speed it was the best thing going.