Atomal 49

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by baachitraka, Jul 14, 2011.

  1. baachitraka

    baachitraka Subscriber

    Messages:
    2,313
    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2011
    Location:
    Bremen, Germany.
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I placed an order on ILFord Delta 100 and ILFord Pan F 50 and wondering how will it goes these films go with Atomal 49.

    Yeah, I have no experience on developers should have take Rodinal path. Nevertheless, I would like know you experience in this regard.

    Target shooting: Portraits with flash and landscapes.
     
  2. michael_r

    michael_r Subscriber

    Messages:
    6,539
    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2010
    Location:
    Montreal, Canada
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    It's an ultra fine grain developer. You'll lose some speed, around one stop depending on development, and at stock strength sharpness suffers (trade-off for fine grain). That could be desirable for portraiture. However you'd get pretty much the same characteristics using Ilford Perceptol. With an ultra-fine grain developer Pan F will be more rewarding from an image quality perspective than Delta 100. These are fine grained films to begin with so you might want to first try a general purpose developer and see if you like the results, before going to an ultrafine grain developer like Atomal. Developers like XTOL, ID11/D76 and DDX will all give you much better film speed, fine grain and good sharpness.

    For landscapes normally a more balanced sharpness/grain negative works better versus portraiture in which a slightly softer look is often desirable. Again I would recommend first trying a general purpose fine grain developer such as the ones I listed above. Alternatively you could use an ultra fine grain developer like Perceptol, diluted to 1+2 or 1+3. It works well and provides good contrast control, but speed is still relatively low and care must be taken not to overdevelop or the fine grain effect is quickly lost.
     
  3. Роберт

    Роберт Member

    Messages:
    333
    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2011
    Location:
    Ukraine - Netherlands
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    PAN F 50 in an ultra fine grain developer (like A-49) is about the finest grain you can get (except from Efke 25) in regular B&W films.
    Alternative type developers in this way:
    CG-512/RLS
    W665 (based on Ortho Phenylene Diamine)
    Perceptol
    Microdol-X

    A-49 has some CD ingredients like the W665 has. The sharpness will be less with these type of developers. Further you will have speed loss but that's not so important when doing landscape photography.
     
  4. baachitraka

    baachitraka Subscriber

    Messages:
    2,313
    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2011
    Location:
    Bremen, Germany.
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Another big problem is there is no proper data sheets. Well, it is my mistake to into wild with reading proper routes. Can any body share the dev times for stock, 1+1 and 1+2 for Delta 100 and PanF?
     
  5. michael_r

    michael_r Subscriber

    Messages:
    6,539
    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2010
    Location:
    Montreal, Canada
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I could give you suggestions for Perceptol, but I have not personally used Atomal so I can't comment. Its composition is quite different than Perceptol so I don't know if people use Atomal diluted or if it is simply used as a stock/working solution undiluted.

    Perhaps try looking it up on the digitaltruth website's massive development chart. There might be some suggestions there for starting points with specific films, although once you have the starting point you will still probably need to do some of your own testing.
     
  6. Роберт

    Роберт Member

    Messages:
    333
    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2011
    Location:
    Ukraine - Netherlands
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Sharpness in A-49 stock is an issue so most people are using at least 1+1. I take the CG-512 (1+4) in my CPA-2 on 24C. Better sharpness:
    http://www.ottobausw.de/CG512.htm
     
  7. Brac

    Brac Member

    Messages:
    632
    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2004
    Location:
    UK
    Shooter:
    35mm
    I used Agfa Atomal in the 1980's & early 1990's as a stock solution. One litre could develop about 12 films and from memory I increased the development time by one minute more for each film I developed after the first. I don't know if this is the same developer as Atomal 49 (there was also an Atomal FF, which I never used).

    I can't agree about a speed loss. I never found that. Indeed in an Agfa brochure of 1990, this is what it said:-

    "Very fine grain negative developer with compensating effect in powder form with maximum speed yield. Suitable for pushing fast films (eg Agfapan 400 Professional)."

    Unfortunately most of the films the brochure gives times for, have been replaced by updated emulsions, so it's not much use me scanning it. However with most films, the brochure gives slightly increased speeds, which exactly tallies with what I found. Agfapan APX 100 gives ISO 160 at 11 mins. I found it quite a gutsy developer. although how it would work with Delta 100 & Pan F Plus I don't know. The original Pan F required 18 mins and gave a speed of ISO 80. But maybe, as I say. Atomal 49 is something quite different.
     
  8. john_s

    john_s Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,103
    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2002
    Location:
    Melbourne, A
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    I have the Agfa pdf files from the more recent era when there were recommendations for Atomal FF, referred to as "extremely fine grain film developer," and the recommended times were for significant speed loss (more than a stop for some films).

    But I suppose Atomal 49 is something different.

    I have a typed sheet from Agfa from around the late 1970s where they list separate times for Atomal FF and Atomal (this latter with no letters or numbers after its name).
     
  9. piu58

    piu58 Member

    Messages:
    793
    Joined:
    May 29, 2006
    Location:
    Leipzig, Ger
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    Here
    http://www.adox.de/atomal49entwicklertabelle.pdf
    you can find a developping chart for Atomal 49. In the GDR the name Atomal was not permitted to use. The product was named "A 49". You can find lots of information about this.
    I used A 49 in the 70th and still use it. Usually I dilute 1+1 and use it as single shot.
     
  10. georg16nik

    georg16nik Member

    Messages:
    1,044
    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2010
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I second that there is no speed loss with Atomal 49 at least with Agfa / Adox emulsions.
    Still keep 2 sealed glass bottles of the ORWO A 49 (dated 1976) and the paper instructions for it. So, its clearly stated that:
    "The speed of the film is fully utilized"
    From what I know, Adox's version is not much different than ORWO A 49.
    Back in the days, ORWO was somewhat of the East Germany AGFA :wink:
    Interestingly, ORWO's version (A 49) of Atomal almost always gave us better results than the Agfa Atomal.. probably because we were using mostly ORWO films.. :heart: NP22, NP15 :cool:
    Uwe Pilz posted the data with times so - good luck!
     
  11. Роберт

    Роберт Member

    Messages:
    333
    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2011
    Location:
    Ukraine - Netherlands
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
  12. baachitraka

    baachitraka Subscriber

    Messages:
    2,313
    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2011
    Location:
    Bremen, Germany.
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I made the first development with Atomal 49 1+1 for 10mins with 135 HP5+ and the results are surprising. I do not see any grain but I cannot say anything about speed loss. Since, I give it to the labs for printing.

    I am very happy now with the results.