Azo paper. Made by Ilford?

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by GreyWolf, Oct 29, 2003.

  1. GreyWolf

    GreyWolf Member

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    I have just finished reading the long thread on Photovision and was impressed with many of the contributors opinions. I can readily identify with those fed up with "big company mentality and greed" as well as us "baby boomers" gravitating back towards traditional forms of expression.

    I for one, am drawn to the 4x5 camera for that very reason. I love using the basics, my hands and eyes and enjoy fully the whole journey from exposure to print. (traditional methods of course). I also am returning to woodworking using handmade tools. Check out "Lee Valley" on the web if this type of thing interests you.

    Anyways ... I digress while enjoying my morning coffee in a snow blizzard here today.

    My simple and honest question is "Why does a company like Ilford not make a proper contact printing paper like Azo?" Is this type of paper hard to make?

    Kind Regards,
     
  2. Donald Miller

    Donald Miller Member

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  3. Ole

    Ole Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I think that if anyone were to offer an Azo-like contact printing paper, it would have to be one of the smaller producers. The market simply isn't big enough for Ilford - or Kodak, for that matter.

    Bergger already have a contact paper (which Michael A. Smith will tell you "just isn't Azo" - which is correct), so they probably won't make one.
    MACO are market leaders in X-ray photography, and produce film and papers we can use as an "afterthought", since they're making emulsions anyway.
    EFKE films are the old ADOX films, not very famous for their papers?
    The "best" candidate might be Fotokemika Zagreb, makers of Varycon and some other things. Or maybe Forte?
     
  4. juan

    juan Subscriber

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    Well, if someone is going to begin making an old-style paper, how about manufacturing the old Haloid papers Weston printed on. I saw a thread somewhere that Xerox no longer claims ownership of the formula. How do we find out what the formula is? Maybe, if we can start an APUG magazine, we can make APUG paper. Ha.
    j
     
  5. Aggie

    Aggie Member

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  6. David A. Goldfarb

    David A. Goldfarb Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    If you look at Ilford's corporate page, they have a section where they say they can manufacture all sorts of flat coated products as a subcontractor. I wonder what they make other than film and paper.
     
  7. Ed Sukach

    Ed Sukach Member

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    Not too likely. I once analyzed over 3000 prints and specifications to find any cadmium containing items destioned for overseas shipment. They seem to be *very* sensitive about cadmium.
     
  8. wm blunt

    wm blunt Member

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    Guess you're just going to have to jump into platinum/palladium if azo goes away! Of course not the same but you make it yourself as long as materials are available.
    Wm Blunt
     
  9. Ole

    Ole Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Well, I think I'll start with albumen before I "resort" to Pt/Pd... so far, I haven't progressed beyond salt prints and vanDyke - and enlarging on Berger Contact :wink:
     
  10. Michael A. Smith

    Michael A. Smith Subscriber

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    Unlikely that the Chicago Albumen Works (CAW) could make Azo. Making light-sensitive paper requires a huge factory. I have visited Kodak and the facilities are truly astounding--from paper making to coating the emulsion and everything in between. The CAW folks are good friends of mine and it is all they can do to keep up with what they are already doing. And they most certainly do not have those kinds of facilities.

    As Don said, contact printing paper has a small market and it is an ever declining one. Even if all LF photographers, from 4x5 on up printed on Azo, demand still wouldn't come close to what the commercial uses and government uses used to be. So I do not see anyone jumping in to make a contact printing paper.

    The older papers did have cadmium as well as othe "outlawed" things in them. These things cannot be used anywhere (maybe not anywhere, but certainly not anywherre in Europe), not just in the USA. So even if someone had the formula for Haloid, it could not be made today.

    However, all that being said, if someone has tens of millions to spend on this I do think it is possible. Anyone out there with those kinds of bucks who wants to spend them on making a new (old) contact printing paper?
     
  11. Aggie

    Aggie Member

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  12. Black Dog

    Black Dog Member

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    If you look in the excellent book Silver Gelatin published by Argentum press, there are several recipes for chloride emulsions inside which use reasonably readily available chemicals-they just reprinted it.