B&W Copy Neg From Color Neg

Discussion in 'Enlarging' started by slad, Nov 10, 2006.

  1. slad

    slad Member

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    Hi,

    I have 35mm color negatives that I would like to print in B&W. Many years ago I use to use Panalure. Unfortunately, Kodak no longer makes this paper. Multi-contrast paper is ok depending on the negative but I found a panchromatic paper works the best. Being that I couldn't find another paper similar to Panalure I thought I try making copy negs. Since I'm going from a color neg to a B&W neg I'm going to use a reversal process. To start I thought the simplest method would be to copy onto a chromagenic film such as Ilford XP2 and send it out for E6 processing. Has anyone tried making copy negs this way? Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

    Sal
     
  2. srs5694

    srs5694 Member

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    I've not tried this, but you might consider sending a chromogenic B&W film to an outfit like Dale Labs or PhotoWorks, both of which make copy slides from C-41 print film (similar to the way Hollywood movies are duplicated). OTOH, they return these slides mounted and when you try to print from them you'll end up with a 3rd-generation copy vs. 1st generation for a direct print or 2nd generation for reversal-processing the film.

    Another thought I have is that Ilford recently introduced a new panchromatic B&W paper. It's intended for use in digital processing machines for making digital prints, but you might give it a try for your purposes, bypassing the copy negative. There's been at least one APUG thread about this paper. It quickly morphed into a discussion of the value of digital technologies, art, and other topics, but you may be able to learn something about this paper and its practicality (or lack thereof) for your purposes.
     
  3. Jim Jones

    Jim Jones Subscriber

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    Copying with transparency film might also work if the gain in contrast isn't excessive.
     
  4. tbrennan13

    tbrennan13 Member

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    I've done exactly that in the past, when I was working for a large photographic operation. We were given a colour negative and required to make a large volume of B&W prints.

    We used two methods: the first was to make an interpositive on panchromatic film, and then an internegative on ortho film. This was time consuming, and dust was a problem. So, I found that one could expose the original colour negative on to Ilford XP-2 sheet film, and then process it in an E-6 line.

    The main problem with this is that the contrast will be low; you will almost certainly have to "push" the film in order to get adequate contrast. Also, the resulting negative will have a blue-ish cast to it. Some exposure and development tests are definitely in order.

    Also, unless you are doing your own E-6 processing, the lab may refuse to give your film E-6 processing. Have a word with the manager or owner. They may tell you that it will throw their process out of control. It has been my experienece, with more than 27 years in theh industry, that that won't happen unless you are running an awful lot of C-41 film through an E-6 line.
     
  5. Dave Miller

    Dave Miller Member

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    Have you tried printing on ordinary paper? I ask because it can work quite well, but you do have to experiment with the filtration to overcome the negative's orange cast.
    There’s an example on the “sales” page of my website that printed quite well, but it was a low contrast subject to start with.
     
  6. slad

    slad Member

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    I tried Kodak's BW400CN at an IE of 400 and 200. I found a small lab that didn't have a problem with cross processing. Since I didn't know what to expect I didn't ask to have it pushed or even if they would push it. The results were very dark and unprintable though I can see the images. My next step is to either shoot the film at EI 50 and bracket in either direction or stay with EI 200 400 and see if they will push the film.
     
  7. Robert Brummitt

    Robert Brummitt Member

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    I use to print color negs on to Ilford rc paper with no problem. Sometimes I would have to flash the paper but otherwise I had no real problems.
     
  8. Woolliscroft

    Woolliscroft Member

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    I also mourn for Panalure, and the Seagull version which has also gone. I tend now to re-photograph prints on 6 x 7 Kodak Tech Pan (I still have a freezer full). I over expose by a stop and then pull develop to stop the contrast going through the roof. If Ilford's Delta 25 ever appears, that might also make a good film for the job. If you are careful and start with a good print the quality loss isn't really noticable, at least on enlargments up to the size of the original, and you can use normal lens filters for things like darkening skys, rather than having to think backwards as you did with enlarger filtration on Panalure (not easy for those of use who don't do much colour printing).

    David.