Berger MCCB paper

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by Daniel_OB, Feb 15, 2007.

  1. Daniel_OB

    Daniel_OB Member

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    can anyone compare Berger MCCB paper with ilford (MGIV Fiber Base) or (Warm Tone Fiber Base). I am intersted particularly in how Berger performs for portraits.
    Thanks
     
  2. TheFlyingCamera

    TheFlyingCamera Membership Council Council

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    I don't know about MCCB ( are you sure you have the right product name?), but I LOVE the VCCB paper. It is a beautiful warmtone paper for portrait work. It tones very well in a wide range of toners, and responds to different developers. For a warmtone finish, try the Ilford warmtone developer, or for something a little more neutral, go for Ansco 130. For a blue-black cold tone, try the Ilford Cooltone developer. To see some examples, check out the photo in my gallery here that is a ringaround test -

    http://www.apug.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=11961&cat=500&ppuser=6785
     
  3. Loose Gravel

    Loose Gravel Member

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    I don't know MCCB either, but I love the VCCB. It has a deep warm tone, but the base is white. Only paper I know like that, but I don't know many. When I tested VCCB against other papers years ago, I found it to have blacker blacks than others, too. It is outstanding paper.
     
  4. Scott Peters

    Scott Peters Member

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    Will it still be available with the Forte closure?
     
  5. TheFlyingCamera

    TheFlyingCamera Membership Council Council

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    This is the critical question. I'm looking for alternatives while I can, just in case it goes away. I've heard good things about Kentmere Kentona, so I'm going to give it a try as well, but I'll keep on using the Bergger as long as it is available.
     
  6. MMfoto

    MMfoto Member

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    MCCB is the matt version, IIRC. It's great, just like the VCCB, and yes, it'd be lovely for portraits. I'd also suggest that VCCB doesn't have the sheen that other glossy papers have and I might give it a try even if you normally like matt papers. It's really good stuff.
     
  7. TheFlyingCamera

    TheFlyingCamera Membership Council Council

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    Actually, the Matte version is VCCM. The VC stands for Variable Contrast. The second C is for Warmtone, N for Neutral, and B is Glossy, M is matte. It only comes in the following combinations:

    VCCB
    VCNB
    VCCM
     
  8. Daniel_OB

    Daniel_OB Member

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    Geee I do not know how it happened. The paper in question is VCCB.
    Thanks a lot guys for correcting and input, it is so helpfull to me.
    www.Leica-R.com
     
  9. Daniel_OB

    Daniel_OB Member

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    As I know Berger is a company in Frence. Is it somehow connected with Forte?
    www.Leica-R.com
     
  10. JLP

    JLP Subscriber

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    Daniel,
    Very much, i believe Forte made all paper and film for Bergger. The VCCB is very close to the Forte Polywarmtone but i believe on a heavier base. Don't know about other Bergger papers, VCCB is the only one i have used and like very much.
     
  11. TheFlyingCamera

    TheFlyingCamera Membership Council Council

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    Forte was coating the paper to Bergger's specification. The recipe for the Bergger papers may have been similar to Polywarmtone, but it was not the same. It was also definitely coated on a different paper stock- the original VCCB paper was on a 320 gsm paper stock. They have since reduced it to a 260 gsm stock, which is still heavier than most other double-weight papers, but not as special as the original.
     
  12. MMfoto

    MMfoto Member

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    I just knew it was lighter after the original Forte debacle, a couple of years ago, but I couldn't get any confirmation. It seemed to print different to me as well... The older stuff was really premo. The newer stuff is also spectacular. It is similar to Polywarmtone, but there is enough difference for me to prefer the VCCB and even enough to barely justify the price difference even though I constantly question it.
     
  13. TheFlyingCamera

    TheFlyingCamera Membership Council Council

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    I found out about the paper weight difference when I contacted Bergger's rep here in the US because I ordered three packs of 16x20 at considerable cost, only to find out the paper was thinner. He told me somewhat arrogantly, "It's only 20% thinner", and said I could return it for a refund to the retailer (B&H, which like most photo retailers has a no-returns-on-sensitized-products policy).
     
  14. MMfoto

    MMfoto Member

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    You handle something for long enough and you really come to know it. My experience was that I pulled a sheet from the package and my fingers told me something was amiss. It's still great paper though.

    Change is good, I guesss?
     
  15. Daniel_OB

    Daniel_OB Member

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    TheFlyingCamera:
    "...and said I could return it for a refund to the retailer (B&H, which like most photo retailers has a no-returns-on-sensitized-products policy)."

    if B&H accept return would you return the paper and get another one, if returning cost you none?
    www.Leica-R.com
     
  16. TheFlyingCamera

    TheFlyingCamera Membership Council Council

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    At this point, I will not, because I did test the emulsion and it was essentially unchanged, and I needed something that would print the same as my previous work, since I was printing a portfolio that needed to be consistent. My complaint at the time was not that the emulsion had changed at all - my complaint was that they reduced the paper weight, and increased the price at the same time, but never said anything about it. After that, I went on a paper chase, so to speak, trying to find a new paper that I could live with, but it turned out that I couldn't find anything else I liked as much, and came back to it.
     
  17. Maine-iac

    Maine-iac Member

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    The only difference I've been able to tell between the Bergger and the Forte (besides, as you correctly state, a slightly heavier paper stock) is the packaging in 25 sheet boxes only with a higher price tag. It's upscale Forte.

    Larry
     
  18. Gary Holliday

    Gary Holliday Member

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    So what does the future hold for Bergger Prestige Fine Art Portrait (Silver Supreme)?

    I'm about to try this for this first time, but is it going to disappear?
     
  19. Rolleiflexible

    Rolleiflexible Member

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    Amazingly, I recently learned that Freestyle will accept returns on papers. The woman I spoke to on the phone said, "How else are you going to figure out which paper to buy?"

    Sanders
     
  20. Rolleiflexible

    Rolleiflexible Member

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    That's the $64 question. Bergger has suggested that they are seeking alternative manufacturing solutions but has revealed no hard plans yet.
     
  21. Gary Holliday

    Gary Holliday Member

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    Hopefully they will speak to Kentmere, I'll buy some to increase demand!
     
  22. Ole

    Ole Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I hope they manage to keep it in production - it's a wonderful paper for some images. And there's nothing else like it. :sad:
     
  23. Gary Holliday

    Gary Holliday Member

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    I contacted Linhof Studio, who distribute the paper in the UK and they stated that Bergger have made provisions for Silver Supreme to be manufactured elsewhere.