Bergger's president communicate

Discussion in 'Product Availability' started by Aurelien, Feb 6, 2007.

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  1. Aurelien

    Aurelien Advertiser Advertiser

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    Mr Gerard, PDG of Bergger asked me to communicate this:
    "Bonjour,
    Bergger a plusieurs lieux de production. L'un d'entre eux est effectivement la Hongrie. Les propriétaires actuels semblent privilégier un projet immobilier plutôt que la continuité de la production de l'usine. Nous nous battons avec des associés européens et des appuis politiques locaux pour que la production reprenne. En attendant nous pouvons fournir tous nos produits "catalogue" et ce pendant 6 mois, le temps de trouver une autre solution (ce qui est, en partie, fait )
    Nous avons besoin de l'appui de tous pour réussir.
    Merci de faire connaître ce qui précède.
    Cordialement
    Guy Gérard
    Président Bergger S.A.

    Bergger produces in several locations. One is indeed Hungary (Forte). Actual owners seem to prefer an housing project instead of keeping on production. With several european partners and local politic support, we are fighting to relaunch production. But we have enough stock for all our brand products for 6 months. That is the time to found another solution, what is already partially done. We need support of all to succeed.

    Guy Gérard,
    President of Bergger SA
    "

    Thank you for reading
     
  2. haris

    haris Guest

    Wouldn't be nice if Mr. Gerard come here and communicate personally, instead using "spokesman"...

    I am saying this, because Mr. Galley from Ilford/Harman put new standard when decide to personally communicate with members of APUG. This standard should be followed by others too.
     
  3. Petzi

    Petzi Member

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    That would be in the French forum then, I assume?
     
  4. Wayne

    Wayne Subscriber

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    Actually Mt Gerard is the one who replied to my email, the gist of which I posted on the Forte Closure thread a couple days ago. I didnt know he was the president. He speaks English just fine, but I dont see any reason why he should feel obligated to post here or do anything other than keep working at his job.


    Wayne
     
  5. jstraw

    jstraw Member

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    Bergger doesn't like to admit that they *BUY* Forte and put their label on it. In their terms, Bergger has Forte "producing" for them.

    Bergger suggests that if Forte stops "producing" for them, they will get someone else to do it, when in fact they will *BUY* something else and either put the same label on that product or new label on that product.

    If they buy and relabel something different, it will be something different. It may be better, it may be worse...but it will not be the same.

    I'm no critic of having a producer OEM for a seller but I am a critic of this sort of mendacious corporate-speak.
     
  6. Aurelien

    Aurelien Advertiser Advertiser

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    I agree with you Wayne. It's a chance he told me to diffuse the information. And he always answer mails. But I think he must be busy a lot and it's better working on forte's issue instead of being in Apug.
     
  7. Aurelien

    Aurelien Advertiser Advertiser

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    They do not buy forte's product. I don't think so. They have their own products, as you cannot find another 15 iso film. BRF 15 is the only one. So is BRF 100. So is variable NB paper. When they buy products, they just paste a label on them. Example: PMK, BerVirS, Berfix.
     
  8. uraniumnitrate

    uraniumnitrate Member

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    Things like this is fun to read and just for the record Bergger not produce anything, Bergger buy things and brought all their stuff from Forte!

    If it’s not thru than the other location would be Foma or Efke none of those manufacture anything and never did to Bergger. The next option would be China or meybe Kentmere or even Ilford. But not likelly!

    If you just looked the products than you clearly see that is forte 100% as the technical similarity is something you can’t pass by:

    Now, if Mr Guy Gerard has put up the money requires buying Forte he would have succeeded but they just wanted to rent the place which of course the owners don’t want to happen! Yes he can by it but than he need some cash.

    My proposal is this if Mr Gerard, J&C and other are really interested to buy and doesn’t have enough money than they should ask us! I’m willing to buy some shares with out any hesitation!

    Mind you that the situation is similar with Efke as it were with Forte and Foma has a rich cousin called Porsche, but cousins do get angry with each others sometimes!

    So Mr, what ever your names are, come out of the bush and let’s talk!
     
  9. Curt

    Curt Subscriber

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    It's another no news is good news. We are living in a World where there aren't any real answers. At one time I thought that using Oriental was living on the edge. It wasn't Kodak or Ilford, will it work OK or will it fall apart in the tray? Then I went big and started using AZO, that didn't last long. I tried Nuance from JandC, that didn't last. Now I am trying some new papers and I suspect that they won't last either. In the end I will probably be using Ilford and using a lot less due to the cost. And I won't be alone either. It's supply and demand and the demand is way down according to the editorial in the current edition of FOCUS magazine. I think the collectors would like to see an end to traditional, Analog, photography so the prices will go up on existing prints. All the more reason to continue as long as we can and leave our descendent's something of value.
     
  10. uraniumnitrate

    uraniumnitrate Member

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    And that is a five star statement in my book!:wink:
     
  11. Michel Hardy-Vallée

    Michel Hardy-Vallée Membership Council Council

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    Wow. You guys sure are a bitter bunch. Especially when it comes to the French, it seems. When will you stop badmouthing companies for not speaking here in person and instead INVITE these fine people to come up here?

    Everyone complains about the absence of Kodak, Fuji, Forte, Bergger, whatnot, spokespersons on this forums, but nobody has ever sent a letter of invitation or pressed Sean to strike an offer of partnership. Ilford is here because they sponsor this forum. They're looking after their money, in a good way.
     
  12. Early Riser

    Early Riser Subscriber

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    From my understanding Bergger does not just rebadge Forte paper but has Forte custom make paper using Bergger's formula and specifications.
     
  13. jstraw

    jstraw Member

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    I don't know the facts. Even if this is so, based on what I've learned on APUG from PE, I'd have no confidence that those recipes could be taken to another coating plant and the results would be the same.
     
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  15. jamie young

    jamie young Member

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    I was also given the impression that bergger was having forte do film and paper to their formulas. The bergger vc warmtone paper has been my favorite for a while, and I hope they work out their future sourcing problems. I'm glad they are working on keeping their product available, and would rather they do that than follow this list.
    Jamie
    www.jamieyoungphoto.com
     
  16. uraniumnitrate

    uraniumnitrate Member

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    Not against the French at least it wasn't my intention as I have very good friends who is French but against people who don’t know when it’s time to tell the truth. And if you had fallowed other threads you might find that we were ruff on others too like Maco for example even Ilford who has nothing to do with this at all.
     
  17. uraniumnitrate

    uraniumnitrate Member

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    That is not so!
     
  18. uraniumnitrate

    uraniumnitrate Member

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    PE probably has Bsc in applied chemistry if not more, but reading he’s lines I do know who he is. I have high education too to understand some.

    Bergger is not that big so they can hold a continuity with there recipe at Forte’s plant. Therefore it would be very difficult to stop and restart manufacturing! I remember the time when Forte stopped production two or some years ago it was very difficult to come back again and not to talk about the losses which aspired.

    As I stated here before I know a lot’s of people at Forte. I have selling not repacked but with an agreement with Forte a film called Europan in LF and ULF sizes do to the situation that all those films had been re imported from the US back to Europe and because of this new situation of X-rays on airports, with shipping and post services which damage the film. . (Not with stuff you have on the plane but stuff in cargo)
     
  19. johnnywalker

    johnnywalker Subscriber

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    Either people will be happy with the "new" product or they won't. Give the guy a break. He's managing the situation and keeping those who might be interested informed. He is not asking for your advice or input.
     
  20. gr82bart

    gr82bart Subscriber

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    Isn't it a wonder why APUG is getting a reputation as a website forum for zealots. Someone asked why more executives of other film and paper companies don't respond here. Well, you just have to read the latest posts.

    I'm sure even Simon is shaking his head at some of the statements and hypotheticals being written on APUG. Armchair critics who know everything and can do everything better than those that run multi-million dollar companies. Sure and sad.

    Regards, Art.
     
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  21. uraniumnitrate

    uraniumnitrate Member

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    I forgot to say 4x5 and 8x10 is okay but there is many actors selling this size of film so all of them make money but not gettin fat!. The 11x14 cameras is not that usual out there and in that size the competition is still hard. After that the market is so narrow that no one can grow that big so they can run an entire production of coating and with own recipe it’s got to be stopped time to time. To start again it’s possible with hard work and as I sad before with lots of losses. The rest of it you probobly manage to put it together too.

    I beleive that is one of the reason that no existing companies cutting film to those sizes at all time. thats why they taking orders and they cut after that or maybe a little bit more. Observe that cameras over 11x14 comes a variety of different sizes, proboly the 7x17 is the most common.
     
  22. jstraw

    jstraw Member

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    Too bad, if he circulates information publicly...there will be a public response.

    I wish Bergger well. I hope whatever product they're selling when the dust settles is terrific and that I want to use it. I mean that.

    There is nothing unique to Bergger about the corporate obfuscation that I reacted to, it's what I'd expect. But I don't have to respect it or be fooled by it.
     
  23. Early Riser

    Early Riser Subscriber

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    Having used both Bergger and Forte papers I can tell you that they are different papers. I have tested them side by side, at the same exact time and got very different results in speed, contrast,paper color and surface texture for each of them.
     
  24. JBrunner

    JBrunner Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I vote that all these odiferous industry politico hearsay threads get their own forum, next to doom and gloom, down by the soapbox. It could be called "rumors and other posturings"
     
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  25. Michel Hardy-Vallée

    Michel Hardy-Vallée Membership Council Council

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    Sure, but my point remains that despite your criticisms of Bergger et al. you do not seem to be intent on bringing these fine folks to the debate here and let them show us we're right or wrong.
     
  26. Michel Hardy-Vallée

    Michel Hardy-Vallée Membership Council Council

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    Also, companies do not come here because nobody ASKS them to. Those who browse the forums probably just run away screaming from the zealots.
     
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