best way to extend color chemicals...gas..marbles...or?

Discussion in 'Color: Film, Paper, and Chemistry' started by dede95064, Sep 30, 2009.

  1. dede95064

    dede95064 Member

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    hi,

    in trying to reach a consensus for preserving color chemicals (e6/c41), i have read here and other sites saying to do any of the following:

    1. insert inert gas like argon/nitrogen to remove oxygen from container.
    2. drop in marbles until liquid reaches the top of container.
    3. use accordian-style plastic containers to remove extra oxygen.
    4. use wine box containers and use the bag that houses the wine.
    5. any of the above or just put them in the freezer and thaw them out when needed.

    now i know the point in doing all of these is to prevent the chemicals from oxidizing but i was curious to know if those who have tried any of these report better success by using one method over another? and if so, how long has your shelf life been for the chemicals?

    thanks for any insight!
     
  2. Sirius Glass

    Sirius Glass Subscriber

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    I have found that #2, using marbles can make for very heavy and hard to hold bottles. Do not try this with 1 gallon bottles.

    Freezing is just a bad idea. PE posted within the last week that some chemicals are damaged when stored below 50ºF. Are you going to check out the minimum temperature for every mixed chemical you have? Is it worth the risk?

    Now you are down to three more realistic approaches.

    Steve
     
  3. Rudeofus

    Rudeofus Subscriber

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    I would like to post a slight variation of method #1: instead of inert gas, use some propane/butane mixture. This mixture is heavier than air (unlike nitrogen) and more available than argon gas. You get this mixture as lighter gas or specifically made for the purpose (e.g. Tetenal Protectan).
     
  4. hrst

    hrst Member

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    I use plastic beverage bottles, made of thin and durable PET plastic. You can squeeze virtually all air out very easily & quickly! These are very cheap (especially if you use these kind of drinks :smile:) and durable. I don't know about other countries though, but in Finland there's easily available 0.33, 0.5, 0.95, 1.5 and 2 liter sizes. They can be squeezed so well that every amount from 0.2 to 2 liter can be stored using these sizes easily. Much better than playing with marbles.
     
  5. Xmas

    Xmas Member

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    Buy one litre kit, use big tank.

    Dev in one batch mix slow and fast film to stretch the dev to the limit...
     
  6. ricksplace

    ricksplace Member

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    When I started souping colour, I bought a case of 250ml glass bottles with caps. I repackage the chems into these smaller bottles with no airspace. The chems keep for up to a year (so far). Once a small bottle is opened, it will oxidize the same as any partially used bottle.
     
  7. Mike Wilde

    Mike Wilde Member

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    pre-boiling the mix water to drive off dissolved oxygen before diluting the concentrates I find also helps to extend colur chem stock solutions life.

    I'm big on #1 - either nitrogen (I bought a tank) or before that - cans of 'private preserve' found at better wine stores.

    I have added marbles to the tanks on my wing lynch machine for e-6 to allow me to get the solution up an around the heaters with only 1L mixed and added to the tanks. It was made to keep up to 5L of e-6 all chems mixed and warm, but I do not go through nearly that much volume in my home application before the ready to use solution chemistry poops out on my due to old age.
     
  8. fotch

    fotch Member

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    Missing from the list is decanting into smaller bottles, like the "250ml glass bottles" already mentioned. This is my plan for all developers of any type.
     
  9. tiberiustibz

    tiberiustibz Member

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    Fill the bottles completely. Using developer-replenisher systems allows you to top off the bottle to ensure minimal air. I've achieved lives of many months with C41 chemistry in plastic bottles fully filled.
     
  10. Richard Harris

    Richard Harris Member

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    I agree, full bottles, start collecting. Stoppered glass is best. I have a load of 250ml beer bottles. Plastic tonic or mixer bottles etc down to 175ml and can be squeezed even further. Argon welding gas for shielding any half filled bottles. I think marbles are a no no; lots of trapped air and they always fall out when you try and decant and you can't suck up with pipettes etc because the blasted marbles are in the way.
    I couldn't get butane mixes to work although I am not saying they will not. A small argon cylinder and regulator costs £30 here in UK and will last a long time. Bottles are only half this and regulator you can re-use for ever.
     
  11. pentaxuser

    pentaxuser Subscriber

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    Haven't tried it yet with colour chems but I have had success with B&W and see no reason why it wouldn't work with colour chems. Use an empty wine bag with its tap and box. Fill to neck of bag with liquid to expel all air then replace tap. As you decant the chems the bag simply collapses with no air ingress.

    For larger than 3 L you can get 5 and 10L bags and dispensers from stockists in the U.K. I don't know where you are but in most countries people homebrew alcohol and usually such contianers are sold for just this purpose.

    pentaxuser
     
  12. Bruce Watson

    Bruce Watson Member

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    6. Old wine bottles under vacuum, using vacuvin stoppers.

    Available at every wine store I've been in. Cheap and reliable. And just about any restaurant has empty wine bottles they'll give away as they come up with a fresh supply every night. I've used XTOL stored this way 12 months after mixing with perfect results, doubling Kodak's recommendation for storage. No reason it won't work for color chems too.
     
  13. naugastyle

    naugastyle Member

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    Thanks for the ideas. The small bottles probably works best for me, but I too have been wondering about storage so this was timely. I just don't shoot enough color to use the chems up quickly--and don't know if I'll trust myself with vacation rolls, which is when I do shoot more color. Time to load up on 1L bottles.
     
  14. Domin

    Domin Member

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    I have rather bad experience with them. I'd say they useless for OP's purpose.

    I use small glass bottles + inert gas.