Better to use acectic acid wash in E-6?

Discussion in 'Color: Film, Paper, and Chemistry' started by domaz, Dec 11, 2007.

  1. domaz

    domaz Member

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    I was reading the Wikipedia article on E-6 and it states for the first developer step:
    "Originally this step used an acetic acid stop bath, but was replaced with a water-only bath for process economy".

    When I develop my E-6 at home I do this three times: I put in a 500ml bottle of water at the right temperature, let it agitate on the Uniroller for a minute repeat. I don't have a source of tempered water in my basement to wash with. So with this situation in mind, would it be better for me to use an acetic acid stop bath wash instead of just 3 bottles of water? Would it ensure better washing?
     
  2. Mike Wilde

    Mike Wilde Member

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    may be better to ensure prompt stop

    Depends on how quickly you can effectively dilute the developer. The first develper determines final density, and is ratherpicky on time.temperature as to having to get it right.

    for E-6 I use a buffered stop made by combining acetic acid and soduim hydroxide to create sodium acetate. It keeps its pH stable after many uses, and I reuse it quite a while with E-6 before I discard it, mostly when the lost volume on drains means that the reels are no longer covered. It was based on the Watkins home brew e-6 formula.
     
  3. PHOTOTONE

    PHOTOTONE Member

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    So, in evaluating your processed film, do you see something that would cause you to want to change your first developer stopping method??? The purpose of the water rinse is to halt development, not to get the film squeaky clean. The E-6 process was designed to allow for "some" carry-over between steps..moving forward from step to step.
     
  4. Discpad

    Discpad Member

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    OK, I'm the guy who wrote that in the E-6 Process Wikipedia article, under the guidance of Photo Engineer.

    Originally, an acid stop bath was used after the first dev bath; but was changed to lots of 100F water for process "economy" (though with energy prices where they are, running a 100 gallon water heater to keep a Refrema dip & dunk well supplied ain't cheap these days).

    In any case, as you reduce the effective developing time by using an acid stop bath, you'll gain some contrast as with the 6:00 first dev time, it's in the range of performing a 1/4 to 1/2 stop pull.

    So, with an acid stop, I would increase the first dev time by 15 to 30 seconds, depending on the strength of the acid.

    ---------------

    All that being said, I prefer to rate E-6 at about a third to half stop under, either via pull processing or by changing the "ISO thingy" in the camera, since the destination is a scanner (or occasionally a projector), not an Ilfochrome print, and a touch extra contrast is nice, especially for something like wildlife.

    [​IMG]

    Hope this helps!


     
  5. domaz

    domaz Member

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    I don't see anything that says my first development isn't getting stopped correctly (not sure how I would see that). I am just interested in making sure my process has as few variables as possible. I figured a stop bath rinse might be more likely to do the job than my non-running water rinse.
     
  6. PHOTOTONE

    PHOTOTONE Member

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    As I recall, Kodak does not specify a "running" water rinse for the first rinse. (right after the first developer). If you used an acetic-acid stop bath type of rinse after the first developer..and you don't rinse with water afterwards to get rid of the acetic-acid, then you run the risk of influencing the PH of the following chemicals, and the color developer is quite alkaline, and if it becomes less alkaline then the color balance will shift. So, to use an acidic stop bath, you would still have to use your multiple rinses of water to ensure stability of the process.
     
  7. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    If the first developer does not 'stop' correctly you can see an overall color shift or spots of color. If you don't see either problem, then the first development is stopped.

    PE
     
  8. Rombo

    Rombo Member

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    I am using Jobo ATL 1000 at home. It is automatic machine, and it is not possible to use other than water.
    Before I use Jobo DuoLab, but there I always use water without any acid.
    In Jobo 3 bath E6 kit, there is clearly written that You should use only water.

    I believe, that Acid can change color shift at Your final result. If You work on roller, than try to change water 2-3 times during 2 min washing.

    And if You still want to use acid or stop bath, use only for first 30 seconds after first developer. Throw out and proceed with water.
     
  9. Mike Wilde

    Mike Wilde Member

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    rinse after stop

    I rinse the stop off by dumping the tank stop back into its storage jug, then remove the tank lid, and pour the reel(s) into a stainless steel 'salad' bowl filled with about 30C warm tap water.

    I then unclip the No. 2 photoflood reflector that I usually use to evaluate the colour of colour prints under, and hold it over the bowl. A few seconds of this treatment, and it goes back into the daylight tank for the colour developer. The rinse in bowl with light always gives me full optical fogging, and no need to mess with toxic tin based reversal baths.
     
  10. Discpad

    Discpad Member

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    Of course, Ron straightens out my tortured syntax; especially when dealing with home processing! :smile: