Book of Pyro

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by wilfbiffherb, Oct 5, 2013.

  1. wilfbiffherb

    wilfbiffherb Member

    Messages:
    310
    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2010
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    Does anyone know where in the UK I can get a copy of the book of pyro? Or does anyone have a pdf copy they could send me?
     
  2. Mustafa Umut Sarac

    Mustafa Umut Sarac Member

    Messages:
    4,589
    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2006
    Location:
    İstanbul
    Shooter:
    35mm RF
    Hello , If there is a pdf to be sent , I want it also.

    Thank you,
    Umut
     
  3. payral

    payral Member

    Messages:
    383
    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2004
    Location:
    France
    Shooter:
    8x10 Format
  4. Chris Livsey

    Chris Livsey Member

    Messages:
    306
    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2008
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    £50 on UK Amazon !!

    I would do some online research first, that book, good as it is, was published in 1992 and a lot of work in this field has been shared since then. I would look here first: pyrocat-hd.com
     
  5. john_s

    john_s Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,110
    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2002
    Location:
    Melbourne, A
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    I think that this is good advice. Note that at www.pyrocat-hd.com there is some lack of clarity in mixing pyrocat-MC. The error relates to the absence of either TEA or glycerine in the list of ingredients. See

    http://www.apug.org/forums/forum224/64108-pyrocat-versions-mixing-directions.html

    about half way down. Read the whole thread to get the picture. The error is that you need TEA for the original formula, or as an alternative, something else to get the metol to dissolve.

    I'm using the original -MC version very happily.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 5, 2013
  6. c6h6o3

    c6h6o3 Member

    Messages:
    3,219
    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2002
    Shooter:
    Large Format
    The book of pyro only tells you about PMK, which in the opinion of many is an inferior formula. Most photographers using pyrogallol or pyrocatechin based developers today use some variant of Sandy King's Pyrocat developers. Everything you need to know is right here. I wouldn't give you 50 pence for the Book of Pyro, much less 50 pounds. Save your money for the chemicals.
     
  7. Sirius Glass

    Sirius Glass Subscriber

    Messages:
    20,727
    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2007
    Location:
    Southern California
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    The book does not cover using Pyro as developing until completion [or exhaustion of solution A] which can be done with Rollo Pyro. Developing to completion means that the length of time and temperature do not have to be accurately handled as long as enough time has been allowed.
     
  8. Patrick Robert James

    Patrick Robert James Subscriber

    Messages:
    673
    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2012
    Shooter:
    35mm RF
    I have one I would sell you. If you are interested, pm me.
     
  9. RalphLambrecht

    RalphLambrecht Subscriber

    Messages:
    8,305
    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2003
    Location:
    Florida
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    if not,my copy is for sale to the highest bidder.
     
  10. PhotoJim

    PhotoJim Member

    Messages:
    2,222
    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2005
    Location:
    Regina, SK,
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    It turns out that there are a lot of opinions in photography. Just like not everyone thinks staining developers are best, not all that do think that Pyrocat is best. Different strokes for different folks.
     
  11. wilfbiffherb

    wilfbiffherb Member

    Messages:
    310
    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2010
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    I am well aware of google thanks
     
  12. wilfbiffherb

    wilfbiffherb Member

    Messages:
    310
    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2010
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    Thanks everyone for the advice
     
  13. damonff

    damonff Member

    Messages:
    129
    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2005
    Location:
    Washington,
    Shooter:
    35mm
    I was told/read that PMK must be agitated every 15 seconds. By experimenting, I now use it for semi-stand. I agitate for 30 seconds, then once at 15 minutes and dump at 30 minutes. It works perfectly (for my eyes) with Foma 200.
     
  14. Sponsored Ad
  15. ROL

    ROL Member

    Messages:
    790
    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2005
    Location:
    California
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Indeed, Hutchings recommends frequent agitation verging on constant. Semi-stand seems to go against its prescribed advice that it must be used immediately. All I can say is that if left to sit in a tray (sheet) in the as brief as practical time it takes from mixing (one shot) through presoak (at least +2.5 minutes) to immersion, the solution begins to separate, no matter how well mixed. I agitate the developer even before I drop the sheets in, thence every 5 seconds to constant for consistent results.

    To the OP, I think if pragmatism is your goal, you're better served to search out the many posts for empirical use of PMK. Even though I have a signed and dedicated book, which I'm not selling, I have found its approach to be fairly didactic and thesis like, its main use being introductory use of the developer.
     
  16. damonff

    damonff Member

    Messages:
    129
    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2005
    Location:
    Washington,
    Shooter:
    35mm
  17. RalphLambrecht

    RalphLambrecht Subscriber

    Messages:
    8,305
    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2003
    Location:
    Florida
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    wonderful!
     
  18. john_s

    john_s Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,110
    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2002
    Location:
    Melbourne, A
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    As an experiment I developed a roll of 35mm in 250mL of standard PMK in a tank without much air (air or at least oxygen is part of the chemistry of PMK which is one reason why results seem to vary) for i think my standard 12min, not much agitation. Good negs as usual. Then I used the same used developer immediately on another exposed waste roll and got nothing, not the faintest density, not edge numbers, absolutely nothing even viewed very carefully. I concluded that my 12min or so was close to development to exhaustion, at least for this quantity and a full roll.

    I concluded that a larger quantity of developer would be required for longer development than around 12min.
     
  19. Bob Carnie

    Bob Carnie Subscriber

    Messages:
    5,549
    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2004
    Location:
    Toronto-Onta
    Shooter:
    Med. Format RF
    I think the tannin effect is the most important issue with this developer ... think rhubarb... you will find the clue.
     
  20. DREW WILEY

    DREW WILEY Member

    Messages:
    4,976
    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2011
    Shooter:
    8x10 Format
    PMK is still my favorite go-to developer for all kinds of film, and I've both tried and have formulated numerous pyro tweaks from both categories
    of "pyro". I don't recommend PMK for rotary drum dev, but for manual tanks and trays it's extremely reliable and predictable. I basically invert tanks or shuffle tray film once per 30 sec. I'm not suggesting that the other pyro formulas aren't excellent too. The Book of Pyro is worth it, even if you can easily get the same tech info elsewhere.
     
  21. DREW WILEY

    DREW WILEY Member

    Messages:
    4,976
    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2011
    Shooter:
    8x10 Format
    Forgot one thing ... PMK might not be your best choice for long stand dev either. Although the A&B concentrates seem to last forever, once
    mixed, you need to use the developer immediately, and it might not stay predictable for as long as half an hour. Fifteen minutes certainly.
     
  22. Bob Carnie

    Bob Carnie Subscriber

    Messages:
    5,549
    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2004
    Location:
    Toronto-Onta
    Shooter:
    Med. Format RF
    Really you don't recommend rotary process for PMK.. I have only done PMK in my company for 18 years, I may owe a lot of people a lot of money for that screw up.

     
  23. damonff

    damonff Member

    Messages:
    129
    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2005
    Location:
    Washington,
    Shooter:
    35mm
    Don't reuse it!
     
  24. damonff

    damonff Member

    Messages:
    129
    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2005
    Location:
    Washington,
    Shooter:
    35mm
    As someone who uses PMK Pyro all the time for 30 minutes, semi-stand, I recommend it. It works beautifully. Just don't try to reuse it. One use only.

    Another example with Foma 200:

    https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-...57RTR4/s1600/foma200%20%2814%20of%2019%29.jpg
     
  25. Bob Carnie

    Bob Carnie Subscriber

    Messages:
    5,549
    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2004
    Location:
    Toronto-Onta
    Shooter:
    Med. Format RF
    I concur.. do not reuse the developer for a second run.
     
  26. DREW WILEY

    DREW WILEY Member

    Messages:
    4,976
    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2011
    Shooter:
    8x10 Format
    Didn't quite get that one, Bob... do you, or do you not use it rotary? I found that even at low RPM's, PMK had too much aerial oxidation for
    rotary and led to excess fog, or worse, potentially excess edge dev which thicker emulsions. You could print thru it generally, but it certainly
    isn't desirable. That's why Hutchings recommended argon gas for rotary, and why tweaks like Rollo-pyro came along. My drum processors are
    capable of running a lot slower and more gently than the Jobo, and I'd never go back to using them for PMK.