Broken Film Counter -Yashica D

Discussion in 'Medium Format Cameras and Accessories' started by pauljames84, Dec 19, 2011.

  1. pauljames84

    pauljames84 Member

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    Hey guys,

    I just purchased a Yashica D off of ebay. I noticed that the mirror and focusing screens were very dirty so I got that clean. Now that I've loaded it with film, I have realized that the film winder does not stop, and the film counter is not changing. I have now removed the film, and tried turning the metal bent spool (not sure what it is called), and numbers are not changing.

    Any ideas? I may just end up selling this to someone who can fix it, or use it as parts. I was quite excited for this camera, and not happy how everything is turning out, but I guess thats the risk buying off ebay.
     
  2. borek

    borek Member

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    Try google-Yashica D-repair manual
     
  3. Dan Daniel

    Dan Daniel Subscriber

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    Was it sold as 'not working'? Were there representations in thel isting that it was a working camera? If someone says 'working' and 'no returns,' it needs to be working. I'd contact seller.

    The counter will not work, period, with the back open. The silver pin on the right side needs to be depressed for the counter to engage.

    I would jiggle that pin a bit, put a spool in the top chamber, and keep trying. With the back closed, a spool in the top chamber will make the camera think that it is loaded and will show you if it is working (it may be rough winding because of the ridges in the spool- no harm).

    What's the lens, by the way? Yashikor or Yashinon?
     
  4. paul ron

    paul ron Member

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    There is a silver rod with a gear on the end of it that rests on the film spool. That may be bent and not riding on the film properly to activate the counter mechanism.

    If you say the wheel does count as you turn it then the other common problem is the small tab that gets pushed in on the door edge, it may be stuck or not hitting the edge properly. That tab resets the counter to zero (S) when the door is opened.

    Hope this helps.

    .
     
  5. pauljames84

    pauljames84 Member

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    Just to clarify things for you guys, it was sold as working, but sold "as-is" (he said the focusing screen was dusty, which it was, as well as the mirror). I have contacted the seller, but the amount of money to ship it back isn't worth it anyways. I checked the pin on the right side, and it moves in and out fine. I put a spool in the top chamber, and even a now ruined roll of film to see if I can make the counter work. I have also spun the silver rod with a gear (although I did this with the camera open). I just can get no movement in the film counter at all.

    My brother is a mechanical engineer, so I've sent him the repair manuals and we may try to tinker with it when I see him for xmas, but I obviously wish there was an easier fix to this.
     
  6. pauljames84

    pauljames84 Member

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    and it is a yashikor, not a yashinon
     
  7. ke6igz

    ke6igz Member

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    I had a Yashica D that the film counter would get stuck mid roll. When it got stuck you could see skid marks in the paper part of the film roll caused by the metal roller. I sent it in for a CLA. The problem turned out to be old dried out lube in the film counter mechanism.
     
  8. michaelbsc

    michaelbsc Member

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    The yashikor is a decent lens. Don't let that put you off. I have both, and you have to pay very close attention to tell the difference unless you're making large enlargements. And even then the Yashikor has a pleasing bokah. It is a very nice triplet. I don't know why people question it so.

    When the back is open and the pin is released the counter resets to zero, so the door absolutely must be closed. It's sort of like opening a 35mm.

    And the wheel digging into the backing paper is what turns the counter, you absolutely must have film.

    And the take up spool MUST be snapped into the button on the left properly or it won't give enough pressure to engage the toothed wheeled. Make sure the spool is held firm. The prongs must be engaged on the spool properly.

    MB
     
  9. paul ron

    paul ron Member

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    Stop wasting film, use the backing paper of a developed roll as your test roll.

    The pin has to be pushed in as you try the rod n wheel thingie.

    Check that the door is hitting the pin on the edge amnd making it go in far enough, common problem. Also, is the door locking all the way when screwed down or are the seals keeping it from shutting properly?... Another common DIYer mistake using the wrong material for seals.

    .
     
  10. Dan Daniel

    Dan Daniel Subscriber

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    Put some masking tape around the end of the spool and place that end on the silver gear (left side) in the take up area. Now this will work fine without the bouncing from a grooved spool. No need for backing paper or such for testing.

    The D mechanism is pretty simple. If exercise won't loosen it up, the hardest part is going to be getting the leatherette off. And remember, the leatherette is not for light-proofing, so using the camera without it is fine (Grip-Tac from cameraleather.com is a great material for TLRs).

    Yashikor or Yashinon, I only asked in case you were going to sell it :smile: Yashikor is a very nice lens, the D is a great TLR- simple but solid nd nice quality. I hope you get it working and have some fun with it.
     
  11. michaelbsc

    michaelbsc Member

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    True. It doesn't have to be "film" per se. That's an expensive route to go. And at least around my place there must be a hundred rolls of backing paper laying around.

    If you need some to experiment with, drop me a PM and I'll send you a few (dozen) rolls. My wife will love you.
     
  12. pauljames84

    pauljames84 Member

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    Well you see, I've already ruined a roll of film trying to figure this out, so what I've been doing is re using that same roll of film to try out what you guys have been telling me. I appreciate everyones help a lot.

    Michaebsc: I tried spinning the film winder with the back open to see if it is engaging the silver rod gear thing and it is definitely spinning. After I close the camera up, it still just spins continuously and the film counter does not move. Also, I'll just keep using this ruined film roll to test it! no need for you to send me any backing paper.

    Paul Ron: The door is closing tight, there is resistance from the pin when I push it in, which is obviously normal, I don't see how the pin can go in any farther, so I'm assuming that is probably not the issue?

    Dan Daniel: Do you think it is something that can be loosened up? I'm thinking there must be some broken connection between the silver rod (whatever it is called) and the film counter/film winding mechanism.
     
  13. paul ron

    paul ron Member

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    If the pin is pushed in and turning the wheel doesn't make the counter work, the issue is internal with the ratchet n pawl frame stop mechanism.

    I think I have some pics of a counter repair I did someplace. I'll search my files n post it for ya. Are you handy?

    How much did you pay for it?

    .
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 20, 2011
  14. Dan Daniel

    Dan Daniel Subscriber

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    When you push the silver rod in, do you feel a spring fighting you? I might try pushing the rod in and rolling the gear in the take-up spool area by hand. What happens is that the silver rod and part connects to a plate on which a gear sits (6D-106 reverse lever on Yashica's diagram) When the rod is pushed in, this gear is pushed into contact with the film feeding disk's small gear on the opposite end of the shaft (6D-113-2 on Yahsica's diagrams). So you should be able to feel things changing... Of course, the spring holding the silver rod out is strong and coordinting all of this isn't easy. this is where opening the side makes it all so easy on a D- it's all right there in front of you.
     
  15. pauljames84

    pauljames84 Member

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    Sounds like Paul ron is probably right. It seems to make no difference if the pin is pushed in or not. I paid 60 for it, not terrible, but it was described as fully functioning, and I know I could still take pictures, but I do not want to have to guess when I'm at the next frame. I am not that handy Paul but my brother is a mechanical engineer and this stuff comes very natural to him, so I would be interested in seeing those pictures, I am 90% sure that the internal mechanism must be the problem and I sure would like to get this thing fixed up!
     
  16. snederhiser

    snederhiser Member

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    Hello Paul;
    Years ago my Dad gave me a non-working Yashica D. Peel the leatherette from around the top of the advance lever. Should be a gear, pawl, and spring, the screw had backed out. Took me about 45 minutes to fix, Steven.
     
  17. pauljames84

    pauljames84 Member

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    Sounds easy enough Snederhiser, I hope that truly is the problem! I'll let you guys know how things go. My first attempt to fix it will tomorrow.
     
  18. curlygurl

    curlygurl Member

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    I'd love some backing paper to experiment with... if you're still offering??
    :smile:
    My film counter is not working either and I've already blown through a roll of film. I can see this may be expensive if I don't find an alternative for testing.

    Thank you,

    Mia
    Tatianamia Photography
    www.tatianamia.com
     
  19. Dan Daniel

    Dan Daniel Subscriber

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    Keep using the same roll of film for testing. After running it through, you can roll it backwards. Watch for the end of the film going this direction- it is loose, not taped down. Tuck it back in place. When you get to the other end of the film, where the tape is, the film will often have shifted slightly. Simply undo the tape gently and re-apply.

    Running only from beginning to end wil make the START mark consistent. But you can also tape down the end of the film and run it backwards- just guess on a start point and nothing will be hurt.
     
  20. paul ron

    paul ron Member

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    Just remove the film from the backing paper, it's taped on one end. Wind the paper back on the spool n you are good to go.

    If you need some more backing paper, I'm sure everyone here can send you their garbage. I just did 5 rolls of film n still have the paper on the floor of my garage where I do my loading.

    Measure the start arrow and mark the end of the roll the same so it'll start about the same place each time you load backwards or forwards.
     
  21. Aristotle80

    Aristotle80 Member

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    You don't need film backing paper to experiment with the counter. Just use any kind of continuous paper, like cash register receipt paper or butcher paper, etc. You can tape it onto an empty spool. My own Yashica-D has sort of high pressure on the film counter wheel that pushes against the film. Every roll I develop from that camera has little tooth marks visible on the margins of the film strip. The little grippy wheel doesn't actually pierce the backing paper, but the little track is obvious. The film counter gear track allows me to distinguish negatives taken with the Yashica from my other 120 cameras.
     
  22. mgb74

    mgb74 Subscriber

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    A dirty screen falls within "working, as is". A non-operational film counter might, under the minimal standards of ebay, fall in that category as well.

    But a film winder that doesn't work means the camera isn't "working". So if the suggestions in these responses don't work, contact the seller and let him know his description is not accurate and that you will leave objective negative feedback to that effect. He might offer some settlement but, more importantly, he'll be penalized to some small degree (by negative feedback) for misrepresenting his item.