Bromoil - anyone?

Discussion in 'Alternative Processes' started by gandolfi, Aug 12, 2005.

  1. gandolfi

    gandolfi Member

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    Some time ago I asked if anyone was doing oilprints... it didn't seem to be the case..

    so I'll try this.
    Bromoil? anyone doing it?

    I am just beginning to learn this technique - I use liquid emulsion as a base, and it is SO MUCH FUN!

    anyone?
     
  2. brent8927

    brent8927 Member

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    I tried bromoil. Ironically, the best bromoil print I ever did, which actually did look great but was the only decent bromoil I ever made, was a test print; I had soaked my prints for about three days, and well, I never knew that the silver just comes off the print after soaking for so long... So it has a few portions where the silver gelatin came off, but still, it looked quite nice.

    Of all the processes I tried, (palladium, azo, kallitype, satista ,van-dyke, cyanotype, and an extremely short-lived attempt at oilprints- where I never produced a print that would even qualify as "absolutely horrible!") bromoil was my favorite; I'm not sure why, but it might have been in part due to the fact that I didn't have to enlarge negatives and I could keep printing on the same paper I liked to use (Ilford warmtone FB).

    Unfortunately I wasn't ever able to get the hang of bromoil, even after trying other papers, including the ones recommended for it, and I eventually decided that as fun as it was, even with all the lousy prints I made, I would have preferred to devote my time to taking more photos and working in the darkroom, so I gave up on all of the alternative processes.
     
  3. Dave Miller

    Dave Miller Member

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    It's certainly on my list of things to try, but so far I've got no further than attending a one day workshop; great fun. Inspiration may be found here:
    Bromoil
     
  4. Dave Miller

    Dave Miller Member

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    BTW. Link to Bromoil paper supplier which may be of interest.Retrophotographic
    Good company to deal with.
     
  5. roy

    roy Subscriber

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    Buying a copy of the late Norman Gryspeerdt's video "Gryspeerdt and the Bromoil Process" should give you a lot of information and an insight into his way of working. I have seen several of his prints and they were excellent.
     
  6. gandolfi

    gandolfi Member

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    poor you!.. :wink:

    you should try with liquid emulsion as base - I thought it was hard to do, but in fact it is coming on far more easy than I thought...

    if you want information on how to - please tell.

    att. my first attempt.
     

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  7. Ole

    Ole Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Bromoil is on my ever-growing list of things to do...

    But we would welcome a demonstration at the Loen LF gathering :smile:
     
  8. gandolfi

    gandolfi Member

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    I am afraid I havn't got the money to travel..;(

    could have been fun, though.
     
  9. gandolfi

    gandolfi Member

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    FRUSTRATION SETS IN:

    I small story - a typical Schildt-story.

    yesterday, I was working hard to try to learn more about different motives and the "easiness" of those..

    So I did 25 different images, with liquid emulsion.
    Two layers, and time to let them dry in between..

    I did different motives. Large Format flowers.. - 12550 iso Diana image - "normal" Diana images..-
    The (in my opinion) difficult one: the fair skinned young beauty..(so difficult to make the image look even and smooth..)
    Dark Paint with light (Munch-like images) and so on..

    the emulsion is fantastic to work with - SO easy. so I ended up with 25 beautiful images late last night..

    being in a roll, I decided that I could bleach them right there and then, as I was not so tired (so I thought)

    I bleached and bleached, and rinsed- re fixed - rinsed and let them dry over night..

    I was so exhited that I almost couldn't fall a sleep - imaging to have 25 images ready for inking..

    so today was the time...

    NOTHING HAPPENED! nothing at all! the ink wouldnt stick, and no motive emerged..


    I fear I have used the bleach too much. worn it down..
    I wish I had a way of determine when the dichromate stops working...<
    I was actually thinking about making new bleach, but the lazynes/tirednes got the better of me....

    the worst part: I can't do it again!!! the emulsion has been used, and FOMA tells me that they don't export it......

    so that's 25 images out the window....

    small ignorant question: is there any way of saving theese? I fear not, but I am an amateur, so IF; please let me know.


    so typical me: new to things, and then I just think it is easy, and "how difficult can it be"...

    tell me that I am not the only one...
     
  10. jnanian

    jnanian Advertiser Advertiser

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    sorry about your troubles gandolfi -
    i know what it is like to work hard doing something
    and have no fruits from your labors ...

    i have a question regarding bleaching of the "matrix" print ...

    the bleaching solution --- does one have to use:

    acetic acid
    copper sulphate
    potassium bromide
    potassium dichromate

    or can one use something like borax to bleach the image ?

    much thanks!

    -john
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 13, 2005
  11. gandolfi

    gandolfi Member

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    thanks john
    I should have only bleached a couple last night - and then changed the bleach today. It actually was the natural way to go. but I got "greedy" - wanted to do all in one batch...
    the trouble is, that I sort of have to guess when to change the bleach - I don't have a test thingy....alas..

    about the bleach.

    I use the one described in Silver Gelatine..
    (15g potassium bromide
    15 g copper sulphate
    1g potassium dichromate
    for 1/2 liter water..)
    then dilute 1:3 for use.

    Gene laughter, who is the expert in the area (I think) uses:
    an I quote:
    70 ml 10% Copper Sulphate
    70 ml 10% Pot. Bromide
    30 ml 1% Pot Dichromate
    Distilled water to make one liter

    This will bleach/tan about ten 8 x 10 inch prints with a one inch safe edge = 6 x 8 inch image. If the images are low key it will bleach only eight prints. If high key, twelve prints. I bleach for eight minutes per print with constant agitation. Wash 10 minutes. Fix for three and a half minutes. I use a 10% fix made from pure hypo crystals. Wash for 15 to 20 minutes. Air dry overnight.

    Other bleaches are news to me as I am sort of a beginner as of yet..

    best of luck
     
  12. Gene_Laughter

    Gene_Laughter Member

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    Bromoil Bleach

    Any old bleach won't work for bromoil. Copper sulphate must be used. It combines with the pot. bichromate to accomplish the selective tanning.
     
  13. Gene_Laughter

    Gene_Laughter Member

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    "The Expert?"

    "Gene laughter, who is the expert in the area (I think) uses:
    an I quote:"

    I'm Gene Laughter and I don't claim to be "the expert!" I have inked a lot of bromoil prints and I have made a lot of mistakes along the way. I think I'm beginning to get the hang of it! Cheers, Gene
     
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  15. jnanian

    jnanian Advertiser Advertiser

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    thanks gandilfi + gene :smile:

    i forgot about the tanning part !

    - - john
     
  16. gandolfi

    gandolfi Member

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    hi Gene - maybe you don't claim to be the expert - but to me you are....
     
  17. Robert Hall

    Robert Hall Subscriber

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    How hot is your soak bath? When my bleach is too strong, I heat the bath to get the swelling to the correct point. Maybe you need to use a cooler bath as not to swell the matrix to the point of the ink not sticking.

    Have you seen this for reference?

    http://alt-photo.com/alt-photo/bromoil/

    And did you know Mortonsen was a teacher here in Utah and was run out of town for photographing students in the buff?

    Small world.
     
  18. gandolfi

    gandolfi Member

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    I teach students, and on occasion I take pictures of them...
    but I havn't been run out of town yet...
    Blissful Denmark...

    about the bleach. I am carefull not to use hot bleach or rinsing water as I am using liquid emulsion as base...
    and I don't want to melt the emulsion..

    I threw out all the mistakes as they are quite useless (alas), but I have since done another batch of 25 images and bleached/inked them without problems.

    actually I think Bromoil is quite easy, as long as I stick to liquid emulsion (from FOMA)
    I still have to learn the bromoil of "normal" papers..... have no clue..

    my girlfriend is trying out the oilprinting, and that might be a challenge. It certainly is more difficult as there are so many variables to get right.
    (amount of gelatine - amount of p.dichromate - how long to expose and so on..)

    but I am having fun.
    (except that I havn't any more emulsion........) :sad:
     
  19. Gene_Laughter

    Gene_Laughter Member

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    Bromoil Show and Two Day Seminar

    There will be a month long show, "The Art of Bromoil" at the Plant Zero Gallery in Richmond, Virginia opening on October 28. The show is sponsored by the International Society of Bromoilists and will feature the work of about 25 artists from around the globe. All in all there will be approximately 150 bromoil prints hanging in the gallery. There will also be a Historic Section of the show with bromoil prints by masters from the past. The two day seminar (Oct. 28 and 29), "Hopperfest V," is non-profit and there is a $50 registration fee to cover expenses. There will be a number of Bromoil Demonstrations for beginners and advanced bromoilists. For more info, contact me: [COLOR=Navy]glaughter@earthlink.net[/COLOR][/B]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 17, 2005
  20. gandolfi

    gandolfi Member

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    GOOD LUCK with it.
    too far for me......:sad:
     
  21. Gene_Laughter

    Gene_Laughter Member

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    Emil -- It's just a short hop across the pond! :>)

    Before I was wired to the internet I hopped across the pond to visit Norman Gryspeerdt and Maija McDougal a couple of times. This trips were a quest for bromoil knowledge. The most important thing I learned was that brushes weren't all that important. Gryspeerdt made his from cheap artists brushes and Maija still uses shaving brushes trimmed to a stag foot shape.

    Gene
     
  22. gandolfi

    gandolfi Member

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    wow - but the flight fare is devastating..
    EVERYTHING bought here in Dk is expensive..
    remember - a liter of petrol is now 1.65$....

    about the brushes. I don't really know how to use brushes... so I do with something else..
    (afraid to tell - are there special "rules" on what is right or not?
     
  23. Gene_Laughter

    Gene_Laughter Member

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    Rules? What are they? Whatever works is my rule - even if one applies the ink with his/her fingers like a child's finger painting! :>)

    Cheers! Gene
     
  24. gandolfi

    gandolfi Member

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    UPDATE: 10 KG's !! of FOMA emulsion just arriwed here..
    off to work .. (alas my students occupy the darkroom..)
     
  25. Gene_Laughter

    Gene_Laughter Member

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    Norman Gryspeerdt

    I was fortunate to know Norman Gryspeerdt and visited him at his home in Eastbourne. Norman generously gave me one of his original prints as well as a number of his personal books on bromoil. "I'll never crack the covers of these books again, Gene." "Take these," he said. "You can put them to use." What a nice, talented man he was! A giant of photography!
     
  26. Dave Wooten

    Dave Wooten Subscriber

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    Gene,

    Your posts in the gallery are wonderful...thanks,

    Dave in Vegas