Busch Pressman Model C Film Size

Discussion in 'Medium Format Cameras and Accessories' started by vickersdc, Feb 7, 2007.

  1. vickersdc

    vickersdc Member

    Messages:
    337
    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2007
    Location:
    Surrey, Engl
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Hi,

    I'm confused about film sizes! I have recently acquired a lovely condition Busch Pressman Model C camera - but I'm totally confused about the size of film it takes - 6x9, 6.5x9, 2x3, 2.25 x 3.25... and so on.

    Can anybody help? I really want to use this camera, but I want to get the right size for the film holders too!

    Many thanks,
    David.
     
  2. Dan Fromm

    Dan Fromm Member

    Messages:
    4,203
    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2005
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    In the US, where they were made, these cameras took 2x3 cut film holders that accepted 2x3 film. 6x9 is a poor metric approximation to 2.25" x 3.25". 2x3 is short for 2.25" x 3.25". 6.5x9 is a metric size and really is larger than 2x3.

    2x3 cameras with spring backs, also called Graphic backs, accept Adapt-A-Roll 620 roll holders. These slip in like cut film holders and use, as the name indicates, 620 film. 620 film is the same as 120 film, the difference between the two is the spool's dimensions. Many more emulsions are available in 120 than as 2x3 cut film.

    An AAR 620 will feed perfectly well from a 120 spool, must take up on a 620 spool. A trimmed 120 spool as advocated by many people who don't have AAR 620s won't do. Yes, I use AAR 620s with my 2x3 Graphics.
     
  3. vickersdc

    vickersdc Member

    Messages:
    337
    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2007
    Location:
    Surrey, Engl
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Thanks for the info Dan. The initial confusion sprang up because the person I got the camera from mentioned that it needed 6x9 (cm) sheet film and not 6.5x9 (cm) sheet film.

    From what you say, all I actually need is 2 1/4 x 3 1/4 sheet film and that will fit my DDS holders.

    Cheers,
    David.
     
  4. Whiteymorange

    Whiteymorange Member

    Messages:
    2,384
    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2004
    Location:
    Boston area
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I use Efke 2.25x3.25 and I also use an adapt-a-roll. This contraption is really quite useful but loading it the first time is quite an experience. Mine requires a 620 take-up spool but loads fine from 120. The Model C is a very nice little piece of gear. 2.25x3.25 holders are quite cheap on the 'bay these days.
     
  5. vickersdc

    vickersdc Member

    Messages:
    337
    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2007
    Location:
    Surrey, Engl
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I must admit that I have heard about the Adapt-A-Roll, but I specifically wanted sheet film so that I could develop each picture individually. The Model C that I have is in brilliant condition - these cameras appear to be very well made indeed and have all the movements I could ever want. I plan to use it as my travel camera for my forays around the Ardeche region in France, where I travel to on a fairly regular basis. Check out http://www.davidvickers.co.uk/gallery_48761.html which contains some pictures I took with my previous travel camera - a Kodak Medalist II.

    Thank you both for the help.
    David.
     
  6. Curt

    Curt Subscriber

    Messages:
    4,560
    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    Location:
    Pacific Nort
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    The Busch Pressman C uses 2x3 or 2 1/4 x 3 1/4 film in sheet film holders in the spring back. I bought one that was mint, nearly new, and got the Grafmatic holders and a bunch of 2x3 holders. I measured the camera and measured the Graphic 2x3 and found that a Graflok back would fit on the Busch Pressman so I made the conversion. Now I have a camera that can use sheet in film holders and in the Graphic "23" roll holders, which are really nice because the 120 roll film choice is better than sheet film. I have a Kalart finder that is spot on and with the roll film holder in I have a nice setup for multiple exposures. The Graphic roll holders come in 2 1/4 x 2 1/4 or 2 1/4 x 3 1/4. They are called "22" and "23". That gives a choice of size and quantity on roll film until Ilford comes out with Pan F in 2x3 sheet film size. It's a nice camera to use.
     
  7. glennfromwy

    glennfromwy Member

    Messages:
    278
    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2004
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Grafmatics are nice, with their 6 sheet capacity, but awfully tight under most Model C fucus panels. If you want to use one, it may require a little washer under each fucus panel spring to keep from over stressing things.
     
  8. Curt

    Curt Subscriber

    Messages:
    4,560
    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    Location:
    Pacific Nort
    Shooter:
    Multi Format


    Glenn is right, that's what started me on the path of back replacement. I was unscrewing the screws to take the pressure off the springs. I am using the Grafmatics with the Graflok back now.
     
  9. k_jupiter

    k_jupiter Member

    Messages:
    2,578
    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2004
    Location:
    san jose, ca
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    The C is a nice camera. I have seen them at photo shows and they seem well built. I have both a 2x3 Speed and 2x3 Crown, nice little cameras. I use a "22" roll film back on mine as I have never been pleased with the "23" backs that have wandered into my existance. I also have a graphmatic or two as well as a number of Type 5 film holders. I don't use them very much as I find the film... too little. It's a pain to load, a pain to process, it's a pain to print.I wind up putting it between two sheets a glass before putting it in the enlarger and then you have to fight Newton rings.

    Heck, just give me a roll of 120 PanF and I'll be happy as a clam. If I am shooting sheet film, I stick to the larger 3x4, 4x5, and 5x7. More film real estate for the effort buck.


    tim in san jose
     
  10. vickersdc

    vickersdc Member

    Messages:
    337
    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2007
    Location:
    Surrey, Engl
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Hi Tim, why is it that you were unhappy with the Type 23 backs?
     
  11. Dan Fromm

    Dan Fromm Member

    Messages:
    4,203
    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2005
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    PMFJI.

    David, older 23 backs have a carrier with knob advance and a shell that doesn't have a pin roller at each side of the gate. Newer ones have a carrier with lever advance and a shell with a pin roller at each side of the gate. The newer shells, with pin rollers, are supposed to hold the film flatter than the older ones, without. Note that carriers interchange between the two types of shell, so it is possible to get a lever-wind carrier in a shell without pin rollers and a knob wind shell in a carrier with.

    Also note that to accomodate the pin rollers, the new type shells' gates are about 4 mm narrower than the old type.

    I have a new type 23, it has other problems but holds the film flat enough.
     
  12. vickersdc

    vickersdc Member

    Messages:
    337
    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2007
    Location:
    Surrey, Engl
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Thanks for that info about the type '23' backs Dan. I'm intrigued to know what other problems you've had with this back?!

    Cheers,
    Dave.
     
  13. Tom Hoskinson

    Tom Hoskinson Member

    Messages:
    3,879
    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2004
    Location:
    Southern Cal
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I also mounted a Graflock Back onto my Busch Pressman C.
     
  14. vickersdc

    vickersdc Member

    Messages:
    337
    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2007
    Location:
    Surrey, Engl
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Hi Tom,

    Do you have any pictures of your Busch C with the Graflok Back? How did you go about fitting it?

    Cheers,
    David.
     
  15. Roger Hicks

    Roger Hicks Member

    Messages:
    4,913
    Joined:
    May 17, 2006
    Location:
    Northern Aqu
    Shooter:
    35mm RF
    Dear David,

    The external dimensions of modern standardized film holders for the 'baby' formats are all identical: only the internal dimensions (for holding the film) vary.

    The same is true of 4x5 inch/9x12cm; of 5x7 inch/13x18cm/half-plate; and of 8x10 inch/18x24cm.

    Cheers,

    R. (www.rogerandfrances.com -- where you'll find pictures of film holders of different types in a free 'How Do I...?' module in the Photo School).
     
  16. Tom Hoskinson

    Tom Hoskinson Member

    Messages:
    3,879
    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2004
    Location:
    Southern Cal
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    David, finding a 2.25X3.25 Graflex Back was the hard part. Fitting it to the Bush C turned out to be a pretty easy and obvious process, once I had the graflock back.

    I'll take some pictures of my modified Bush C and post them in my APUG gallery.
     
  17. dancqu

    dancqu Member

    Messages:
    3,676
    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2002
    Location:
    Willamette V
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    Why not 3 1/4 x 4 1/4? I've an Extremely Rare
    Omega C enlarger which takes that size.

    The enlarger is available. I'll let it go cheap.
    It does need some work. Dan
     
  18. ricksplace

    ricksplace Member

    Messages:
    1,565
    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2006
    Location:
    Thunder Bay,
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I use Mamiya rb67 backs on my Century Graphic with a graflock back. Much better than the roll film backs made by graflex. Having said that, I haven't had any problems with the graflex-singer 6X7 back either.