BW Color emulsions on same film

Discussion in 'Silver Gelatin Based Emulsion Making & Coating' started by Mustafa Umut Sarac, May 27, 2010.

  1. Mustafa Umut Sarac

    Mustafa Umut Sarac Member

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    I found that if color and bw emulsions put on to the same film , its a fantastic idea.

    Best ,

    Mustafa Umut Sarac

    Istanbul
     
  2. alexmacphee

    alexmacphee Member

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    How would that work?
     
  3. markbarendt

    markbarendt Subscriber

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    ??????
     
  4. Mustafa Umut Sarac

    Mustafa Umut Sarac Member

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    I got this idea from the autochrome thread at hybridphoto. As you know autochromes have cool colors and as Philip suggested to me that I needed to print with inkjets and the autochrome dyes on to the transpartent film to get closer look to autochrome. But he said I needed to print a bw layer also.

    This idea opened new doors. If we want autochrome colors , we need bw and color together.

    So bw and color film emulsions can be put in to the same film by a manufacturer.

    We scan the film with selective scanning and get bw or color or together.

    Or they can adjust the powers of these layers and we print bw and color together with an enlarger.

    I dont know scanners are legal at apug.
     
  5. Steve Smith

    Steve Smith Subscriber

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    Autochrome is only monochrome emulsion. The colour comes from red, green and blue dyes.


    Steve.
     
  6. markbarendt

    markbarendt Subscriber

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    Post a link so interested parties can find the thread over there.
     
  7. Mustafa Umut Sarac

    Mustafa Umut Sarac Member

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  8. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    Strange Steve, I thought it came from specially grown Irish Orange, Green & Violet potatoes :D

    Ian

     
  9. Mustafa Umut Sarac

    Mustafa Umut Sarac Member

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    Steve , I am defending to print these starch colors on to paper with hybrid photo link , by the way adding a bw layer also
     
  10. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    Autochrome is Additive, and chromogenic systems are Subtractive. Thus, one uses R/G/B and the other uses C/M/Y.

    Unfortunately, if you use Additive systems on reflective support you get mainly black and white images, and this is why inkjet printers use a combination of Additive and Subtractive images to attain a full colored image. To gain saturation via these methods, inkjet printers also must use a "K" channel with Black ink. This is similar to that used in the printing industry.

    This relates to Autochrome and Dufay color only in that both of these used Additive systems which can only be successfully used with transmission materials unless modified as noted above in this post.

    PE
     
  11. Mustafa Umut Sarac

    Mustafa Umut Sarac Member

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  12. Steve Smith

    Steve Smith Subscriber

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    Yes, you're right. Orange, green and violet. I'm sure it would work withe red and blue though.

    As for growing pre-coloured potatoes for their starch, This reminds me of something I read about Fender (the guitar company) injecting trees with dye while they were still growing to get some interesting wood colours.


    Steve.
     
  13. Worker 11811

    Worker 11811 Member

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    Just wondering out loud, here...

    If you want to shoot black and white and color images of the same subject with one single exposure, I wonder if it would be best to do it with something like the three-strip camera used in the original Technicolor process. The final print could be made by dye-transfer/imbibation.

    You could even use the same camera setup but with only two strips of film, one traditional tri-pack color and the other black and white. But, if you did use three negatives you could combine them any way you want to produce your desired effect. If you wanted to print them with the traditional CMYK matrices, no adjustments need to be made but, if you wanted black and white you simply print only the matrices that are needed to produce your desired effect.

    (Could it not be done by simply printing the blue matrix as black?)
     
  14. Mustafa Umut Sarac

    Mustafa Umut Sarac Member

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    Steve , Ian , if you interest in aircraft building and if you need strongest fiber for lowest weight , you can search for israel , germany research , growing spider silk with first deconstructing its dna , inject to bacteria , injecting bacteria to the potato and growing spider silk on the potatos.
    You cant grow spiders a lot together because they eat each other :smile:

    Umut
     
  15. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    Of course they do, but they can also make two passes and print a yellow over a cyan to get a green. This is why they use 6 - 8 inks including black.

    However, Autochrome and Dufay do the same, and with transmitted light can reproduce whites, but when coated on reflection support appear black and white with some color spots. Same applies to color inkjet printing if done incorrectly. This is why older color printers did so poorly and why modern ones do so well by comparison. It is also one reason why color printing is effectively so slow.

    And, if you wish to take your idea further try this. Process some E6 films with bleach bypass. then look at them. They are black even by transmitted light. And, do the same with color neg film and you will get desaturated color. You have effectively added a B&W image to a Subtractive color image. OTOH, that same B&W image in an Additive photographic system is essential to getting any image at all. And, in digital printing or standard color print systems for magazines the C/M/Y/K is essential but for another reason.

    PE
     
  16. wildbillbugman

    wildbillbugman Member

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    So bw and color film emulsions can be put in to the same film by a manufacturer.

    Yeah ! Good luck on getting EK to jump on that bandwagon. :D
     
  17. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    Guys;

    A B&W emulsion and a color emulsion are essentially identical. Color is achieved by adding other ingredients, extra layers and by using a special process.

    PE
     
  18. xwhatsit

    xwhatsit Member

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    Bleach bypass anyone?