C-41 beginner needing a little help.

Discussion in 'Color: Film, Paper, and Chemistry' started by Rhodes, Dec 9, 2011.

  1. Rhodes

    Rhodes Member

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    As the title says, I am going to adventure into the world of colour development and starting with c-41 (slides will be next, but that's another story).
    Here in portugal, my acess to the c-41 cheamical is reduze to the tetenal colortec rapid kit 5l [at 57€ :blink:] (also found a shop with 1L kit). I was going to go with it, but after reading and searching, found other color dev kits.
    Read the rollei digibase propaganda and :confused:, should I go for it? The "best" kit (as they say...:whistling:), longer shelf life, various volumes kits (thinking of developing 5 rolls at a time).
    Is it best going for a kit with separeted bleach and fixer insted of blix?
     
  2. hrst

    hrst Member

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    C-41 is very easy and fun, the harder part indeed being buying the chemicals! And, E6 is not difficult, either; it's just a little bit longer process. Good luck.

    There is a long thread on Rollei kits. Apart from some random problems such as leaking bottles (still not fixed), it is like any decent kit. It being "better" that others has never been proved in any way, and I don't buy it that easily, as we are talking about a company that uses any means such as lying to customers, guerilla marketing, bashing others etc. in their marketing strategy.

    C-41 is a standard process, it should just work in the same way regardless of brands.

    However, the Tetenal kit which, strictly speaking, is not Process C-41, may be inferior than standard because of non-standard use of blix. However, there are no evident reports of problems. I tested a little and couldn't find any residual silver in a controlled test, but I tested just once with just one film. At least you shouldn't overuse the chemicals beyond Tetenal's instructions.

    Long story short, start by buying that Tetenal if it's easily available. I bet you will be satisfied. I was, but changed to FujiHunt kit, not because of any problems, but because the FujiHunt kit is cheaper and in theory, better than the abridged Tetenal.

    I buy FujiHunt from http://www.ag-photographic.co.uk/fuji-hunt-c41-x-press-kit-5l-680-p.asp . It might be a good possibility for Portugal. I have to buy 30 kg at a time (around 4 kits) to have optimum shipping cost to Finland. Ask them.
     
  3. agfarapid

    agfarapid Subscriber

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    I've used both kits, the Rollei and the Tetenal. Both produce the same results. As I see it, these are the strengths/weaknesses of both kits: Tetenal--easy to mix, easy to use, restricted to one temperature (68). Blix is kinda gross smelling and tends to expand and froth in my metal tanks. Rollei--Confusing instructions; you can mix either a portion from the stock solution or use all of it. More flexibility in temperatures. Can be more costly per roll compared to the Tetenal. Uses separate bleach and fixer--no frothing while developing. As stated previously, results are virtually same from both kits.
     
  4. hrst

    hrst Member

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    All C-41 developers are restricted to one temperature. The only difference is that Rollei lies to the customers :smile:. BTW, Tetenal also gives some time-temperature compensations. Kodak and Fuji expect that you develop in standard conditions because there is not a single reason not to.

    Of course you can vary the processing conditions but it will cause some color crossover. It is a compromise, or an intentional choice you can make, but it definitely is a processing fault. The results may be good enough, or even near perfect, but that's not the point. The point is, it is because this PROCESS developed by KODAK is flexible. Not because those Rollei chemicals are flexible.

    But, I cannot see why someone would like to use other than the correct temperature. It is extremely easy to process correctly at 37,8 deg C. You can vary a bit without large effects, but why bother, as you need a water bath anyway. Room temp development causes significant changes in result. And the development time is so long (keep agitating every 15 seconds, yes!) it's so much easier just to temper the chems and process correctly in less time.

    Con artist companies can achieve a higher market value with no real achievements, hindering other manufacturers that play fair. The end result is that we lose possibilities.

    This is not just speculation; it has happened before. Let me tell you a story as an example! Disclaimer: please consider this story as fiction, as every detail is not strongly verified but based on my own observations.

    Tetenal managed to achieve a very steady business model partly by false marketing; they simply produced inferior, even faulty products but marketed them using strong claims for their superiority. Their RA-4 kit is a perfect example. In marketing, it was revolutionary; easy to mix, especially suitable for hobbyists. In practice, it was harder to mix than competitors and produced horrible results and had a minimal self life, and was more expensive. But, many hobbyists who bought this as their first touch in color printing, just didn't know about anything better. It took more than a year to me, too, to figure out where the problem was!

    "Suitable for hobbyist", implicitly claiming that the time-tested products from Kodak and Fuji aren't suitable for hobbyists which isn't true, their products soon became the only available color processing chemicals in many countries. And in the rest, Tetenal was the easiest to buy. So, what they have, is a false marketing that their products are SUPERIOR when in reality they are INFERIOR, just for the reasons they state for superiority such as revolutionary "blix", "monoconcentrate" etc!

    And for those hobbyists thinking that randomly varying yellow, muddy highlights and muted, dark colors are normal features in "home color printing", there never was anything wrong with Tetenal RA-4 kit. "monoconcentrate" was still a great marketing claim. Hence, some other small manufacturers copied this idea. The concept had failed technically, but not from a marketing viewpoint.

    Now we are at a point it's very easy to buy Tetenal and Rollei everywhere, but the other brands such as "Kodak" and "Fuji" are very hard to come by. Luckily, AG Photographic sells the Fujihunt C-41 and E6 chemicals in Europe now.
     
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  5. Rhodes

    Rhodes Member

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    Thanks for the replies! Well, mainly, AG has a lower price in the fuji kit, but plus the shippment costs, it becames more that the tetenal kit here.
    I will process color with my cpe 2 precessor and from what I have read, jobos advises not to use over 600ml of solutions due to stress the motor, etc. The jobo botles are also 600ml so, I was thinking of doing that amount of cheamicals.

    By the way, anyone know how to place a jobo lift on a jobo cpe2 processor?
     
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  6. tiberiustibz

    tiberiustibz Member

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    The only reason you would be able to vary the temperature on C41 with acceptable results is if you're doing B+W chromogenic film.

    Fortunately I have stockpiled 6-7 gallons of c41 bleach, other chemicals, and $400 worth of Supra Endura in cut sheets in my fridge. Getting your hands on good chemistry is rather tough unfortunately. I used a C41 press kit when I first started out with fair results. It comes with the blix in a powdered form.