C-41 Stain

Discussion in 'Color: Film, Paper, and Chemistry' started by Chuck Mintz, Jan 21, 2013.

  1. Chuck Mintz

    Chuck Mintz Member

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    I am processing 4x5 sheets in a Jobo Expert Drum using Kodak C-41 and the minimum chemistry (210ml) for the drum one-shot. Getting stains and streaks that are sometimes visible in the film, sometimes not. The drums are not leaking. (that had been a problem once with E-6) I am using a wash between all of the steps. Using the recommended rotation speed for these drums and temperature. Attached is a section of a film. The stains are in the direction of rotation. I am using a pre-heat and a pre-rinse. i do not think I had the problem on previous batches but since they are not all scanned, it is possible that I missed seeing this. Only have two ideas. One is to increase the speed which I do not think will help. The other is use more chemistry. Hate to do this since Kodak is making this stuff very hard to get and very expensive. As in I had the fixer back ordered for nearly three months with Calumet and when it came the bottles were 5L rather than 10L and 30% more per bottle. Any ideas would be appreciated.

    Chuck
     

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  2. tnabbott

    tnabbott Member

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    I had a staining issue that appears to have been caused by running the Jobo at the lower rotation speed. Not sure if a higher speed would help.

    For chemicals, have you tried the Rollei Digibase? It seems they are repackaged Fuji-Hunt C41 chemicals.
     
  3. Terry Christian

    Terry Christian Subscriber

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    I don't have a JOBO, but is it possible to remove the drum periodically and give it a bit of random manual agitation during development? That might help to avoid rotation marks.
     
  4. tnabbott

    tnabbott Member

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    Possible? Yes, but probably not advisable. From what I could tell on the net, some of the Jobo machines had rotation speed options that are just a little too slow. However, all of their machines have at least one speed option that is sufficient to avoid streaks/stains.
     
  5. Rudeofus

    Rudeofus Subscriber

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    I had similar stains with C41 processing (hand tank, not rotary) and these went away for good when I began to use a stop bath and a wash between CD and BLIX/bleach. Be careful which kind of stop bath you use, PhotoEngineer has on a few occasions advised against citric acid which is used in most commercial B&W stop bathes.
     
  6. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    This almost looks like a shadow not a stain.

    However, if it is truly a stain, make sure you use a prewet and use a stop after the developer.

    PE
     
  7. tnabbott

    tnabbott Member

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    What serves as a stop? Will a 1.5 minute wash with water suffice?
     
  8. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    Use 1 - 2 % Acetic Acid.

    PE
     
  9. tnabbott

    tnabbott Member

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    Thanks. I just ran a roll through in which I used a stop bath between the developer and bleach stages. I will post a scan later today or tomorrow.
     
  10. tnabbott

    tnabbott Member

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    Wow! What a revelation. The stop bath makes a huge difference. See attached (not art, but was available):
     

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  11. Photo Engineer

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    This indicates though that there was some other underlying problem such as too little agitation, too little solution in addition to the fact that there may have been no prewet. The stop will correct for the first two, but not the last.

    PE
     
  12. tnabbott

    tnabbott Member

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    I can probably rule out a couple of the suspects. I ran the entire process on the Jobo, so the agitation was probably sufficient. I also can confirm prewet. This leaves the possibility of too little solution. I suppose that could have occurred; however, I attempted to measure the 270ml required for the Jobo tank I used. Is it possible the stop bath makes a difference because of the acidity level of the tap water in my area? Just thinking out loud here...
     
  13. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    Shhhh, be quiet! :D

    Actually, it sounds as if the bleach volume was not adequate, was not poured in fast enough, the developer was in excess or the drain time was not adequate between steps. It might also be that your Jobo is not running on the fast setting even if you set it there!

    Just guesses.

    PE
     
  14. Chuck Mintz

    Chuck Mintz Member

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    Thanks for your comments.
    I would rather not gloss over the problem. If the problem is not getting rid of all of the developer, would almost prefer to extend the wash after the developer to adding a stop bath. I do use a pre-wet. This is the recommended speed for the Jobo which worked forever on E-6 but is easy to increase. If this is a problem with under bleaching, is it possible to now rebleach the film after it has been fixed and stabilized? The other thing the Jobo does is pump a little less bleach than the other chemicals because of how it works (pushing air into the bottle to force the chemical into the tube that leads to the drum) so the idea of having too little bleach sort of makes sense.

    Chuck
     
  15. Photo Engineer

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    Jobo increased the recommended agitation in their "Journal of Rotary Processing" some time back. The problem is not one of getting rid of the developer, it is stopping development. If you use a rinse at 100F, you don't stop development properly. Only a stop can do that.

    There are 2 letter marked indicators on the speed dial. Use the higher setting. Then you might not need the rinse or stop. However, this is an expensive test method.

    You should also be using Bleach III which is more acidic and you have to pour it in fast.

    PE
     
  16. Chuck Mintz

    Chuck Mintz Member

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    Other than cost, any danger in using indicator stop bath for this? Have some on hand and finding chemistry is getting harder every day.
     
  17. Photo Engineer

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    No problem. I've tested it with good results.

    PE
     
  18. Rudeofus

    Rudeofus Subscriber

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    You realize that's got Citric Acid in it?
     
  19. Photo Engineer

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  20. MattKing

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    I'd be willing to bet Rudeofus is thinking about some other company's (i.e. not Kodak's) indicator stop bath.
     
  21. Chuck Mintz

    Chuck Mintz Member

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    Those of you that have added a stop bath step to the process, are you adding rinse between the developer and the stop? My inclination is to add a short rinse only to get rid of any developer in the drum( on a JOBO). Any harm other than adding a minute to the process time?
     
  22. Photo Engineer

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    That minute of rinse at 100F can allow a lot of uneven development to take place.

    The normal is Develop, bleach - .

    Use a Develop, Stop, rinse if you wish or a Develop, stop, bleach, but do not do a Develop, rinse,

    PE
     
  23. tnabbott

    tnabbott Member

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    Chuck: I use the stop bath immediately after CD for 1.5 minutes, then a 30 sec wash, then on to bleach per instructions. I have not tried your suggestion, but the though that comes to mind is that using a wash between CD and stop bath risks further development. My negatives have been coming out very consistent and very since I added the stop bath to my process. I forgot about slide film for a couple of weeks!
     
  24. Athiril

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    Don't rinse after develop. It can cause problems. I was happy developing develop->rinse->bleach at one place I lived at, my negs were great, so I never noticed problems. I moved states, and all my negs were terrible, I spent ages doing many test rolls, remixing each solution from scratch, until I decided to use a stop bath and inspect the develop negs out in the light after dev step, then found that after I did that and finished the process they were great.. it was my water rinse that was wrecking it.